What's the point of reviewing?

@mahler123 I will look and see when I get home rom this trip. 👍✌️

@skyscraper

I completely agree. Even though I take user's comments with a very large grain of salt, they are valuable because they represent a base of actual experience in different systems. I enjoy reading and commenting about this hobby which is why I put up with the disturbing amount of trash talk and drivel on this and other forums to ferret out the good stuff. Sometimes owners will actually post a cogent comment about their own experience with a piece of gear that can be very helpful. For example, the comments from a few users who own the Jay’s Audio CDT3 plus the review in Stereophile & a couple of YouTube reviews made me a buyer (it’s arriving today!). It was reassuring to hear firsthand experience that confirms the quality of this unit. But this is a perfect example of buying a piece of gear that I can’t demo.

recklesskelly & mahler123 - If you read the audio magazines carefully you will see that indeed, a few major advertisers get bad reviews. PS Audio and B&W are two notable examples.

@skyscraper

8th-note, the one thing you’re more likely to get from Audiogon and other sites forum members is honesty about the shortcomings of various products.

Site members will often point out shortcomings of a product that many professional reviewers are loathe to bluntly address.

To the point!

I recall a while back when I needed to replace my car tyre inflator. I read several professional reviews and was disappointed to find that none of them mentioned one huge drawback of most of their recommendations.

Namely that those with a screw on type connector were not only incredibly fiddly to use (risk of thread stripping etc) but in the time it took to remove the connector there would also be a significant loss of tyre pressure too.

I couldn't help but think that either these reviews had been bought or else that the 'reviewers' had simply been echoing each others opinions without testing these devices themselves.

Perhaps some of those old stories were true?

Perhaps some 'talented' reviewers are actually able to review products without feeling the need to unbox them first?

I found when shopping for speakers a while back the then newish Magico A3’s had many glowing reviews from professional reviewers. On the other hand there were significantly more criticisms on audio forums, including here, from members who had listened to them at shows or dealerships.

The sometimes harsh criticisms provided things to listen for and evaluate at demos. I eventually did select the Magicos, but am glad to have been able to weigh in the negative inputs on both the A3’s, and the other speakers on my short list, and not overlook aspects of their performance that might be potentially annoying over the long run.

Mike

Magico are extremely accurate and fast speakers. Almost every setting I have heard them has either had less than ideal electronics or a room that was not ideal and they sounded terrible. You get speakers of this high a quality and you need an appropriate room and carefully chosen electronics of they may sound terrible. But under the right conditions they are among the very best. They are unforgiving.

to me magico’s are the modern day watt puppy 3/2

technical tour de force that unfortunately misses the boat in delivering enduring listening pleasure

@jjss49 

Yes… you got it. If I had $500K - $1M I bet you I would own them. To completely customize everything… room, all electronics… they would be great. 

A review without a demonstration is just moving air and not worth wasting time listening too.

@frankmc195 - but is a review with a demonstration worth much more? You're not hearing the system being reviewed; you're hearing your own system.

The only kind of demonstrations I find useful are ones in my dealers' showrooms, like the speaker audition I had yesterday. 

Although I routinely read professional reviews, they are all essentially the same, gushing over soundstage, "micro detail" etc. They are generally useless. Does anyone recall a negative review of any product? I have an ARC Ref 6. On a lark, I went to CHATGPT and asked it to write an audiophile review of it. Here’s what came out:

"The true essence of the Reference 6 lies in its exceptional sound performance. It takes the listener on a journey of sonic ecstasy, revealing nuances and subtleties within the music that were previously unheard. The preamplifier’s tonal accuracy, transparency, and dynamic range are simply breathtaking.

The Reference 6 exhibits an uncanny ability to render recordings with a lifelike presence. The soundstage is expansive and three-dimensional, effortlessly recreating the original recording environment. Instruments and vocals are placed with pinpoint precision, allowing the listener to discern their individual characteristics and spatial cues.

Furthermore, the Reference 6’s tonal balance is pristine, providing an accurate representation of the recording with no discernible coloration. The bass reproduction is tight, controlled, and impactful, while the midrange exhibits a captivating warmth and richness. The high frequencies are delicate, detailed, and extend with remarkable finesse, delivering an airy and extended treble response.

The preamplifier’s transparency is exceptional, unmasking micro-details and subtle textures within the music. It unravels layers of information, revealing the true intentions of the artists and the emotions they convey. The Reference 6 possesses a sense of musicality that is rare to find, evoking an emotional connection with the listener that is deeply moving."

Sound familiar? You could probably replace ARC REF 6 with any higher end preamp and this would be the likely review. One of the things that I tend to like about professional reviews is the choice of music to review the equipment. I like to take that same song and see if I can hear what the reviewer is talking about on my own system. But I couldn’t base a big purchase decision on a professional review.

User reviews, on the other hand, have limited utility because they are so dependent on the other equipment and the room itself. But at least with a user review, they can call it like they see it, rather than sugarcoat it. granted, when someone here is motivated to review a product that they just purchased, it is usually a favorable one, but there is often value in, "I just bought this and replaced that, and this is how I think the sound has improved . . ." There is no good solution other than to listen for yourself, take a leap of faith and buy sight unseen, or get something that has a return policy.

Great posts indeed! Thanks...

It is precisely why reviews are useful analysed for each separate acoustic factors and especially with users and non pro-reviewers mainly...

It is especially efficient with vintage or older products, because there exist more users reviews...

Very new products are very difficult to assess with few reviews mainly by pro-reviewers if not impossible...

We then must distinguish between users and pro-reviewers, and vintage and new products...

But i purchased my amplifier, dac and headphones by reading carefully users products ... None were new products...

Although I routinely read professional reviews, they are all essentially the same, gushing over soundstage, "micro detail" etc. They are generally useless. Does anyone recall a negative review of any product? I have an ARC Ref 6. On a lark, I went to CHATGPT and asked it to write an audiophile review of it. Here’s what came out:

"The true essence of the Reference 6 lies in its exceptional sound performance. It takes the listener on a journey of sonic ecstasy, revealing nuances and subtleties within the music that were previously unheard. The preamplifier’s tonal accuracy, transparency, and dynamic range are simply breathtaking.

The Reference 6 exhibits an uncanny ability to render recordings with a lifelike presence. The soundstage is expansive and three-dimensional, effortlessly recreating the original recording environment. Instruments and vocals are placed with pinpoint precision, allowing the listener to discern their individual characteristics and spatial cues.

Furthermore, the Reference 6’s tonal balance is pristine, providing an accurate representation of the recording with no discernible coloration. The bass reproduction is tight, controlled, and impactful, while the midrange exhibits a captivating warmth and richness. The high frequencies are delicate, detailed, and extend with remarkable finesse, delivering an airy and extended treble response.

The preamplifier’s transparency is exceptional, unmasking micro-details and subtle textures within the music. It unravels layers of information, revealing the true intentions of the artists and the emotions they convey. The Reference 6 possesses a sense of musicality that is rare to find, evoking an emotional connection with the listener that is deeply moving."

Sound familiar? You could probably replace ARC REF 6 with any higher end preamp and this would be the likely review. One of the things that I tend to like about professional reviews is the choice of music to review the equipment. I like to take that same song and see if I can hear what the reviewer is talking about on my own system. But I couldn’t base a big purchase decision on a professional review.

User reviews, on the other hand, have limited utility because they are so dependent on the other equipment and the room itself. But at least with a user review, they can call it like they see it, rather than sugarcoat it. granted, when someone here is motivated to review a product that they just purchased, it is usually a favorable one, but there is often value in, "I just bought this and replaced that, and this is how I think the sound has improved . . ." There is no good solution other than to listen for yourself, take a leap of faith and buy sight unseen, or get something that has a return policy.

@larsman like my hifi system, I have some very good computer speakers... where as I am listening to my speakers reproducing the reviewed speakers I listen to my speakers enough to get an idea of how the reviewed speakers probably sound. Not exact but close enough. You should understand that a lot of reviewers have an insensitive of one sort of another to give glowing reviews and they could be giving me complete crap in their review. A demo therefore is always helpful. I would like to add that since my computer speakers sound really good then everything I hear should sound good..... but some demos don't.

I mostly ignore “professional” reviews, and fanboy reviews and reviews with an axe to grind.  I find value when a goner gives their impression of the differences in pieces of fear they have owned.

Listening to music is a pointless endeavor... but it gives us pleasure.  

I enjoy reading and learning about gear... so shoot me.

@mirolab 

+1

unless we have identical equipment and acoustic spaces, it’s mute.

Really? Mute? Or moot?

Mute, deaf ears. 

I listen to my system for hours everyday. I enjoy reading so called expert reviews and commentary. It's entertainment. I've become obsessed with the quest to achieve 2 channel audio nirvana. I own many puzzle pieces and I've determined in my acoustic space some pieces fit perfectly. I can't snap my fingers anymore, but I love to tap my foot. That's entertaining. 

I've become obsessed with the quest to achieve 2 channel audio nirvana. I own many puzzle pieces and I've determined in my acoustic space some pieces fit perfectly

op

you should list your system and share photos of it in the listening room

Hey @jjss49 

You have a great list of components! How do you like the Carver?

Call me either a sucker or a fool, but for my past couple purchases I’ve just relied on mail-ordering from a couple of SoCal stores where I bought quality stuff before I moved to the oh-so-lovely-but-high-end-bereft wilderness. I must say, though, that I’ve never enjoyed listening to my stereo so much. Is it the better electricity you get in a rural clime?

The word you are looking for is “moot.”

Have you ever experienced listening to the same component in a different system and having it sound completely different?

Plus the room is 80% of what you hear. When that sank in, I gave up reviewing.

Exactly...

I did these experiments and it is my opinion...

It is why reviews dont have meanings in a singular way at all..

There is only meanings in  statistical analysis of all reviews on each separate acoustic factors...

Have you ever experienced listening to the same component in a different system and having it sound completely different?

Plus the room is 80% of what you hear. When that sank in, I gave up reviewing.

+1 @chowkwan 

Not to mention identical hearing and knowing the reviewer’s musical values are identical to yours. I see a big problem therefore you are totally stuck when it comes time to either purchase equipment due to shops closing and the difficulty of taking equipment home to audition in your space.

I hope you are not being serious with your statement but just making a general observation of how everyone’s musical journey and level of enjoyment is very unique. Find reviewers who you value their opinions and seem to be close to yours  and use that as a starting point but yes the final verdict is up to you to make in your listening space.

Different people listen differently. Back in the 80s when Physical EQs were all the rage the "average" listener almost always had the "smiley" face set up on the bands. Over doing bass and high end. Look at today's more clever EQs (aka digital filters) and presto... smiley face. Simply put, most people like what they hear when set up that way. Reviewers and more advanced listeners tend to have less bass and highs are more "ideal". Designers and Engineers tend to chase the graphs. Aiming for as flat as they can. Room correction (digital or physical) have similar objectives. Over the years, even "budget" equipment sounds great to the average listener. Mostly because they engineer it to sound over bass'ed and tweaked high ends. I like reading the reviews and reviewing the graphs just to understand where I'm starting from. Then use the 1% rule to tweak each area to eventually get what I like. I have a very flat set of headphones which I try to keep flat as a reference. I can enable to disable room correction and EQ also to compare. Reviews are just that reviews. Just because a reviewer likes something doesn't mean you will, and the biggest gap of all is how your room and set up is. That's all your listening preference. Also remember, big reviewers are paid. This is a hobby, Some of us obsess over it, other just enjoy it, jumping in and out of the rabbit hole as the mood hits us. Reviews are just a starting point. IMHO.

 ...the "average" listener almost always had the "smiley" face set up on the bands. Over doing bass and high end. Look at today's more clever EQs (aka digital filters) and presto... smiley face. That's funny and true. I made that face. Growing up in the 60's and 70's , almost every preamp and receiver had tone and balance controls. I have an old McIntosh preamp, and when listening to vinyl I use tone control adjustments to improve the experience. 

@voodoolounge 

No, the way you used it it was moot. No getting away from that.

@roxy54 

Guns or knives? Butch 

@voodoolounge 

No need for violence, just own up to your error.

@roxy54 

Error? 😂 It’s exactly what I meant, perfectly. 

@roxy54

The grammatical error is simply a typo. Minor slip ups like these are common and eminently forgivable, especially if you are posting from a handheld device, It doesn’t help that, hey, sometimes your eyes just blur...