Then it would seem you never read or listen to reviews. Fair enough. Other people do find value in them, as our experiences tend to confirm what some reviewers have to say.
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The best reviews are professional reviewers that have experienced many components across the sound quality / cost points. They show their associated equipment and use standard high end audio terminology. Think Stereophile, The Absolute Sound and HiFi+. If you are serious a pot this pursuit you read reviews and hear as many of the same components as have been reviewed, thusly calibrating yourself to a rough standard. By listening over time to many components you can begin hearing different components within a system. Being able to choose compatible components comes with this experience. While there are many dimensions to this… combining components that match your tastes and values in music helps move closer to compatible. Many of us have pursued high end audio for many decades… one of the reason it can be a long term pursuit is that there is so much to learn and ultimately the problem you are trying to solve is so ambiguous.
Reviews on Audiogon are much more problematic. You have to get the context and values of the poster from the post and hopefully they’re virtual systems to understand their experience, values, and bias. For some posters it is easy, some hard. There is a lot of valuable method and general info that is really valuable here though. |
@ghdprentice "Many of us have pursued high end audio for many decades… one of the reason it can be a long term pursuit is that there is so much to learn and ultimately the problem you are trying to solve is so ambiguous" That is the truth. @jl35 Auditioning in your listening room is helpful but I don't know of sellers allowing that to happen |
I take reviews with a grain of salt. To me, it's great when i buy a product and then it is on a Best Of , Buyer's Guide , or gets strong praise from critics It is great to read other OWNER's impressions of their gear. Some stuff has universal appeal and others are real niche.... its up to you to decide what's best. What's best is to demo in home if at all possible |
Reviews provide information and it is up to the reader to determine if anything of value was passed on. More likely, the comments provide a variety of perspectives and the value here can be more useful than the initial review. Regarding the value of reviews found in major publications, there has been some controversy as to how advertising affects the reviewer’s perspective. |
You're right in that everyone's rooms, systems, and ears/subjective opinions are different and in no way can replace listening for yourself. However that isn't always possible so we often turn to second and third hand opinions for further information. Since most reviews are entirely subjective it can be of considerable help if the reviewer can provide information as to how the product compares with its better known peers. Comparative reviews are also better because that's what we humans are good at. And that includes reviewers. |
Good question and IMHO not much other than entertainment. It’s more like advertising under the guise of "information". They just confuse the issue with insecurities and doubt. Reviews can be good to: 1) Let you know a product is out there. 2) Basic specs like dimensions, power consumption, and frequency range.
As for sound quality, if you listen to sound with your ears, not your eyes (what you read) or your mind (your imagination), there is not much point to them. Even if we can all agree Benchmark DAC’s are "analytical", what does that mean to YOU and will YOU like it? You have to hear it for yourself. There are just too many variables. Have you ever gone for a demo at a dealer of hi-fi show and system sounds great. Then you put in your own music and the sound falls apart? Why is that? Can it be fixed by tweaking? I’ve heard systems go from "mid-fi" to "hi-fi" just by changing one component, speaker placement, the room, or the song. One guy who worked at a stereo store said when they had merchandise they wanted to move, they set it up really good in a conspicuous place in the store. Sure, some dealers allow home auditions but unless you have a few components to compare to, does not help that much IMHO. Plus is not easy to arrange to get a bunch of components into your house then send back.
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One review means NOTHING ...Nevermind the reviewer... Reviews are only meaningful in their statistical numbers... Then you compare them for ALL acoustics factors... You decode each word associated with each factors... Then the most important part is to read what is missing, what is not there... The text of a review say half the story, the other half is missing or between the lines... I applied this method for all my purchase... I made few errors when i underestimated my own ignorance and when i fail to spot my unidentified needs,,,Not because of the reviews analysis ... Then BEFORE reading reviews identify your real needs... If you read reviews without precise needs you will be tempted to upgrade foolishly most of the times... In one word : reviewers dont matter, only the sheer numbers of reviews for a product to be ANALYSED...This method for sure is valid for well known products not obscure one... Then there is no need even to listen to it before buying it ... Anyway i cannot and could not listen before buying...This is the reason i developed this simple but efficient method...But my field work was reading analysis... 😊 |
The point is well taken -- this is an extraordinarily hard thing to compare for physical reasons above and beyond the interpretive and physiological differences btw people. But, of course, conditions never need to be "identical" to be not mooted. When reviewers are articulate, they at least give a hint about what they like and what they’re hearing. That hint serves as a clue for people who find that their tastes might align. Cf. Why read movie reviews or restaurant reviews? Same reason -- bc we find others there who seem like us AND they describe their listening conditions and tastes to help us see if it’s close enough to even take a hint. This has nothing to do with statistics. It's about finding people who speak our language. Whose words are music to our ears. |
@mahgister is right. There is strength in numbers. Many people drawing similar conclusions and representing a decent random sample is the secret sauce. Or even just several knowledgeable sources might do it.
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We dont read reviews about an amplifier the same way we read reviews about meals and movies at all ...😁😊 Acoustic concepts are not food cooking or about "taste"...Nor movie genre... With gear components we identifies what each listener say about, dynamic, timbre, transients, soundfield imaging and soundstaging, with what kind of gear his impressions are build , what are the musical albums used , what type of room...Etc and especially we pay attention to what he does not speak about.. We put them on a paper... After each reviews we add a column... Statistics here means only that 35 reviews analysed is better than 5....The acoustic factors at play for the analysis had nothing to do with the 35 five different personnalities who created their own reviews...( except for common place fact as : we dont analyse review of people loving heavy metal to pick a balance headphone ) The point here is that if so many DIFFERENT people with DIFFERENT taste CONVERGE in impressions about each acoustic factors then you can believe it as a PROBABLE fact... What the tastes of a single reviewer are MEANS nothing, because we analyse each acoustic factors written ideally by 35 different people, THATS THE POINT... ... It is evident that even if someone has the same taste as me in music it does not means that the shape of his ears, the distance between his ears, the different components he was using, and in a very different room than mine all factors that differentiate him from me will help in a lesser way for a good pick up choice of gear than analysing the highest numbers of opinions possible about bass, timbre, highs, imaging, soundstage, transients ...This is so evident that i will not go further... But if we are lazy we can read a reviewer or two we like and if they say this is very good, we can belive it....For sure... But it is not my general idea about reviews analysis... And opposing the "similar taste" factor to my "statistics" is preposterous, because my point of view INCLUDE even taste of the reviewers but it is not the main factor at all , acoustic factors are the main one... we can even rank reviewers by our favorable opinion about their teste... ( I generally exclude heavy metal listener opinions or electronical music)... I pick the Sansui amplifier and my AKG K340 as i described...Complete success...
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the generalized question, in this day and age of information overload and the highly questionable veracity of much of said information, is how does one sort through what is available to draw salient, accurate, reliable conclusions upon which to act? this question/issue applies in spades in this case of audio equipment reviews and online discussions... and lessons learned should apply profitably to all major decisions where info gathering is necessary |
You read a review. The reviewer makes a convincing case as to whether the component under review might be something that'll match your taste, give your system new life and altogether enhance your listening pleasure. The component is within your budget...or just slightly beyond it. You buy the thing. You connect it up and listen for a couple days. Does it indeed increase your pleasure? Is it breaking in and sounding a bit better as the days go by? If so, yeah! You're a happy guy or gal! |
The trick is that one must be able to take all the information available for a product and synthesize that information to derive conclusions that have a good probability of panning out. Not always an easy task. Much easier to just take advice from someone you trust. That can work as well if that person has correctly done his homework. Sometimes it’s simply just hit or miss and try try again.
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You can take what any reviewer says with a grain of salt regarding sound quality, but reviewers can also tell you much about the feature set of a device, how well those features worked, how snappy any software was, and if it had issues connecting to wi-fi, so you'd know to steer clear. And you can at least see the device on screen in a real room, not just some well Photoshopped ad copy. |
Reviews are fun. They introduce you to products you might miss. If the reviewer understands functionally how a product is designed(a few do) you learn what the designer is trying to do and a bit of if he's going in the direction he wants. If you read enough reviews and get to know a reviewer's tastes If he knows his own and is consistent) over time you may even get a good idea if a product interests you and if it's worth seeking out to audition. |
Reading one review about any product is not nearly enough to figure out its potential. One must take the time to read many reviews before you can see any kind of pattern that may fit your listening environment. It usually works for me, not a fan of auditioning in live rooms as they don't represent mine. |
Reviewing is a starting point, not an end point. Reviewers aren't a talisman or an 8-Ball. I used to rely on them for guidance and learned to just read them for the updates in tech, keep up with what's new, and with the talented ones, for the humor and insights. You're basically on your own in this hobby and don't ever see that as a limitation. It's an advantage. Follow your heart and use your ears and you'll be happy. If you click with a certain reviewer, then that can help narrow down choices. All the best, |
When i bought my Sansui alpha , i could not stumble on one single bad review.... It Takes me a very long time to read them all... But it was fun...All positive...Simple i order two different Sansui... I never regret it.... But when i read about the AKG K340, i was desesperate... All my other 8 headphones were , now i can say it "crap" or so unnatural ... I decided to go speakers again after having sold Alas! my Tannoy dual gold ( 2 pairs).. But Speakers also did not satisfy me really, even My Tannoy...I did not know basic acoustic miracles at this time... Then 5 years ago just before i begin my acoustic experiments journey, i bought the AKG K340...In spite of some negative reviews...Why? Because i apply my statistical reading analysis and there is more cultist fans of the K340 than people not loving them... The main criticisms were: mismatch between the electret and dynamic cell and contamination between mids and bass... The very well known Tyll Hertzens said exactly that : mismatch between drivers and boominess...But i read many, many others reviews with more positive reaction and no words about the mismatch and the boominess save few people... I respect Tyll but i read even the patent of Dr. Gorike the physicist founder of AKG to figure out how this headphone worked... After all it is the most celebrated piece of AKG ... I owned the K701 and it is "unnatural" sound completely... The K701 was celebrated for years...Not by me... I must say now that almost all headphones for me are not well designed acoustically and i know it by experience and by my experiments with the K340... I described all this because we must analyse the more reviews possible...but in the headphone case reviews are misleading, because very, very few headphones are good acoustically... Most people dont even know why...They never listen to a really good headphone with a speaker like holographic sound , ethereal highs, and baqs that shake my body as with subs... Now why Tyll, an expert reviewer of headphones miss the K340 ? Because like most reviewers he does not created a system around them to serve them , he reviewed them , one after the other, right out of the box without even knowing and learning how to use this complex headphone peculiarities... And he does not realized that the only hybrid ever designed with success and generating cultish love for 40 years need to be LEARNED before being evaluated ... And he did not realized because he never listen to an hybrid that the sound impression will be completely different...The brain must take notice of it... We must learn how to listen a new product, especially a verty complex headphone...Hard to drive and impossible to optimize if we dont understand why this resonators inside are there and what is this dual chamber inside etc... It takes me 6 months to eliminate the boominess and the supposed mismatch which i perceived the first day as Tyll described....... i put 6 modifications...And this diamond shine now astonishingly...For example i opened it and put two types of vibration control materials , i tried 5 pads...i discover the good one with the right dimension...i cut off the thick plastic grid inside that protect the driver ( AKG put it to protect the product not for S.Q. at all ) Etc... Now this lesson was for me : never trust any SINGLE reviewer.... Trust a large numbers who will reveal in their own way if we analyse their language for each acoustic factor what the product can do... I read a review by another expert in Israel by the way, a very serious dude, expert in headphone optimization, who transformed and optimizeed the K340 ... He give to them almost a maximal note of excellence... This compensated for the negative Tyll review in my mind and convince me after the lost of my speakers/room that i can also myself put the K340 to his top level ...( it take me 6 months each day of listening experiments in my 10 months absence from audiogon)
No reviewer even very competent one own the truth by himself alone ... We must analyse many reviews...
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Good question. As one audiophile’s wife said in exasperation "They all sound good, just pick one". And that is the saving grace of hi-end audio. We are talking about the LEVEL of sound reproduction here, not each variance. I have 2 different systems. The QUALITY of sound is equivalent. The TYPE of sound is not. I could be happy with either one. Depending on the day or the song, one shines over the other. That kind of nit picking can put you into an asylum. . . . for sure. Whether 35 people or 3,500 like something it doesn’t mean I will. We’re talking PREFERENCES here, not quality like it will blow up and burn down your house. I suspect I have missed the stereo of my dreams because of dismissing something from a bad review and can never hear it for myself. Have you ever seen an unsalable house? An unfillable occupation? So I don’t go with that numbers method. Someone out there will buy anything, like anything, do anything. Although if it brings peace to anyone, God bless them, go for it. Reviewers are very consistent about NOS DACS and I agree. If I read reviews I wouldn’t own one because it doesn’t align with what my MIND wants. Reviews appeal to your mind and your imagination. What you think you want to hear, not the realty of what you actually hear. After extended listening I kept my NOS DAC and it hasn’t been easy for my ears to override my mind. That is, what I hear (ears) winning out over what I think I want to hear (mind). I still know I don’t like it regardless of what it sounds like. |
From some reviewers I learned how to be a better listener. In my early audiophile years that was J. Gordon Holt and Dick Olsher, later Art Dudley. Harry Pearson’s writings expanded the language and vocabulary of hi-fi reviews, a subjective-review vocabulary initially created by JGH in his revolutionary Stereophile reviews of the early-1960’s. You youngin’s missed all the action ;-) . |
Moot...man...Statements of the Obvious warning: Good reviewers make good reading regardless of what you might think about what's being reviewed, and can lead you to trying something yourself maybe. Or not. I get most of my reading from book reviews, bought plenty of gear (and sporty cars) that had good reviews, and continue to try not to be a luddite living in a cave. |
If you like quality stereo equipment, reviews are a good way to help separate the wheat from the chaff if you’re a consumer, and not an expert. You can look at product reviews online, comments by readers on Audiogon and other forums, and "best of the year" ratings by the major audio magazines etc. and find by consensus what components are among the best out there in your price range. Then you have a reasonable guide to know what’s worth seeking out for a demo. Some of the folks writing above are excellent sources of information. Unless you live near a major metropolitan area, that’s about as good as it will get for you, short of when you’re able to return equipment that doesn’t quite work in your listening room or with components you might already have. You can often research compatibility too to preclude those type issues. If you’ve got more or better ways to make equipment purchases that would be good info to share here. Mike |
Interesting conversation. +1 @jjss49 "the generalized question...is how does one sort through what is available to draw salient, accurate, reliable conclusions upon which to act?" +1 Mahgister's idea that we do need multiple reviewers to help us converge. I disagree that this does not also include "taste" because we need to find a reviewer who communicates to us, aesthetically. So it's about both. +1 Wolf garcia. Sometimes reviewers are fun to read and can lead to new experiments by us. They re-wire how we conceive of something and that changes what we do. That's useful. +1 bdp24 Expanding the audio vocabulary not only helps us describe what we hear, we hear differently and better with an expanded vocabulary. There are studies on smell which show this, too. More words increases acuity and sensorial perspicuity. +1 @nonoise Reviews are a starting point, for sure. Sometimes I read reviews after I purchase, for confirmation or to see if I can now hear what the reviewer was hearing. Sometimes it's a mid-point. I've heard some gear and want to go listen again; but, in the meantime, I check out a review. My main problem with reviews is that they are too positive. Critical or negative reviews have a higher burden of proof; they're forced to make a more detailed and stronger argument. To take one example, Herb Reichert is a great describer of gear and what he hears, but I sometimes find that he's too in love with his own purple prose, prose that sells 40k speakers is win win for him, but it doesn't advance criticism very significantly. Just helps rich people part with their money with a better excuse than "I liked the buttons." |
I’ve bought numerous components over the years based generally on Herb Reichert’s reviews (stereophile) and to me, he is dead on with his reviews and a joy to read. I also like the fact that he often reviews equipment the average guy can afford...for example, pioneer plx1000, Hana el, wharfedale 225, linton, rogue sphinx, goldenear brx, border patrol dac, etc etc etc...I own several of the aforementioned, and find that they sound as he described and are good value for your money. |
We can easily class reviews in Reviewers i trust, reviewers i dont know, and reviewers i distrust etc... Speaking to do a statistical analysis of each acoustic factors with the specific words picked to describe them in reviews DONT PRECLUDE what is evident to do, classify the reviewers, once we did had identified our precise needs...
«One of my hand think the other walk» --Groucho Marx 🤓
This is precisely WHY we are better to NEVER choose only reviewers with our esthetical and taste ONLY but especially MANY unknown people, average audiophiles who will pick other words to describe what a PAID pro reviewer will avoid and mitigate: the negative impact of his words choice...Infirmation rule ,confirmation goes after... Chosing audio component has nothing to do with "taste" , we dont even know really the needs, the room, the ears, the components of the reviewer we like because we identify ourself with one aspect of his written ghost personnality ... Chosing audio components is about "acoustic factors" evaluation and impact not about "taste"... What is not said in a review matter the most, and what is negative is the most important and must be investigate in a comparison with the words choice of others reviewers to infirm or confirm ... What is positive means something ONLY by the added numbers of reviewers ...
«My two hands works better together without me»--Groucho Marx 🤓 «My hands need my brain more than me sometimes»--Groucho Marx 🤓 |
@roxy54 a run on sentence. 😂 I tend to do that after an edible. Was a hard day kayaking. I am going to start calling you Mrs, Carvello, she what my 8th grade English teacher and she was hot. |
Just for the record, I've bought most of my system based on reviews and reputation without hearing it first. I was never interested in restricting my buying decisions only to gear that I could demo at home. In fact, I have never demoed a piece of gear in my system before I bought it. I don't know how many people out there are like me but I suspect that it's quite a few - they are just rare on this forum or they won't admit it. Look at all the people who gush over their Chinese ladder DACs that they never auditioned before they got them. How did they even know about these DACS if they never read a review? I've never had the time to mess around with home demos. I have subscribed to Stereophile and TAS for about 40 years and I carefully read the reviews of anything that I am interested in buying. I've never bought a component that was reviewed well that sounded bad. I have carefully auditioned speakers in showrooms, however, The pair of Mirage M3si I bought in the 90's are a good example. They are big, weigh over 100 lbs each and there was no way I was going to lug home the demo pair and try them out. They sounded great in the showroom and they sounded great in my system. My current speakers, Thiel CS6, I bought from a friend at a very good price and I did listen to make sure they worked OK but I didn't try to make any judgements. I bought these speakers based on the outstanding reviews they received and sure enough, they sound stunning. If I upgrade now I would go with a pair of MBL 101 E MkII speakers. I've heard them at a couple of audio shows and they were amazing. But the nearest dealer is hundreds of miles away from me and even if they were across town there is no way I would spend the time and effort to schlep a pair in my house even if the dealer would let me (oh God, what if I damaged one). I would rather make the transaction as simple as possible and ask the dealer for a discount because I'm an easy customer to deal with. I don't know how most of the Agon forum participants have the time to adhere to a "demo only" policy but I sort of feel like they need to get a life. The time I spend with my system is valuable and I want to be listening to music, not auditioning gear. Lastly, I would absolutely trust the opinion of professional reviewers who have heard a wide range of components over a bunch of audio forum hacks who mostly tout the components they have purchased to prove how wise they are. If someone doesn't read professional reviews then it indicates that they only get their information from forums or dealers. In each case the sources of information are totally biased toward what they own or sell. No thanks. I'll get my audio guidance from folks who are paid professionals who do this for a living and have a reputation to protect. |
I agree @8th-note and @testpilot Found my new preamp: Icon Audio LA4 MKIII from a review and Product of Year selection in TAS. There are very few retailers who handle it. Very pleased with it to say the least. |
I would never buy a component based solely upon a review but that doesn’t, in my mind, render them useless. When contemplating an upgrade, my approach is to gather as many impressions/opinions as I can about products I might consider. This includes reviews as well as comments posted on this forum and others and in conjunction with specs, helps me narrow the field. Once I have a short list of candidates, I research which can be auditioned at home, which further reduces the number of contenders. While I don’t assert this is the only way to go, it’s worked for me, so far. By contrast, auditioning gear in show-rooms has not. Each to his/her own. Discover what works for you. |
Audio reviews are like wine reviews. I like to hear what experienced and knowledgeable reviewers have to say about gear (and wine). I’ll never sit in front of some of the high end gear nor drink a bottle of Petrus, but I like to read about it. I’ve run across new music reading reviews and find how the reviewer describes aspects of the music produced. Helps me when I’m listening to my rig. Reviews have influenced some of my buying decisions; most notably my move into electrostatic speakers. When I wanted to try some new speakers, I remembered many times that reviewers compared a speaker midrange to Quads; or they’d remind the reviewer of the first time they heard Quads, etc. With nothing more than that, I found some ESL 63s here on AGon for a reasonable price. Never looked back. Because I think engineering matters, I like reviews that provide measurements and subjective commentary. But the numbers aren’t the whole story. As @mahgister points out, the story is told in how gear fits together into a system and into your acoustic environment. |
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After enough time (years in my case), I found a few reviewers who have reviewed gear I've heard or owned, own, or thinking about owning. Their reviews jive very well with my own impressions of said gear. I came to understand what Kal Rubinson means when he says "The purity of the voices was never Just two examples, but if I'm in the market for something, I can trust that those reviews, if available, will give me a good idea what I would experience with the item in question. There is so much gear out there now, and so much of it good gear, that I would be lost without some point of reference. |
8th-note, the one thing you’re more likely to get from Audiogon and other sites forum members is honesty about the shortcomings of various products. Site members will often point out shortcomings of a product that many professional reviewers are loathe to bluntly address. You certainly less likely to get the expertise of professional reviewers, but you will be much more likely to be exposed to the other side of the coin on any components performance. That info is helpful to know prior to going to the audio store to listen to product demos. Mike |
Reviews in audio magazines including Audio, Stereophile, Stereo Review, etc., helped me a lot when I started to put together my system many years ago Also hours of listening with an audiophile friend of mine in his system gave me clues what I need to buy, what fits my budget, and options for future upgrades. I am very thankful to my audiophile friend for guiding me, and high-end stores in Colorado (Listen Up, Soundings, SoundTrack, etc) letting me take components home for audition. Reading helped me to navigate in the Hi-Fi World where there are many different ways to reach your goals. Without reading reviews, you don't know what is out there regardless of whether you can afford or not. Reviews also sharpened my critical listening capabilities which is the ultimate test where you can decide whether a particular component meets your expectations or not. Finally, a thank you note to fellow hobbyists that I got to know in forums such as this one. They have all contributed helping me to get where I am today. |
Great post! thanks... It is precisely why statistical of acoustic factors over great number of anonymus reviewers and not only chosen well known reviewers is important...
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Got any pix of the hot 8th Grade Teacher? I tend to agree with your view point in that seems like the biggest advertisers in the audiophile magazines never seem to rate negative reviews. I also just love reviews that say something like "After my component exploded when I first plugged it in, the CEO took his private jet to my apartment and personally installed the replacement". Of course we can all expect a similar level of service |
