Here's some reasonable videos about 440 Hz vs 432 Hz, which discuss the practical and historical aspects: (even indicating that during the Baroque era, A was closer to 415 Hz)
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I am not competent nor able to claim truth in this important matter... I am just interested by this matter...
I am also very interested, not so much by tests about our ability to perceive a conscious difference, for sure there is one, especially for trained ears of a tuner or a musician... I am interested by future studies of mind/body metabolism reactions... If the few studies i pointed to were able to be verified and confirmed in the future, then this indicate something truly deep about our body/mind metabolism clocks multi-scale system and the way it inscribe itself in the universe which is also like Kepler already thought a multi-scale scales clock system ... The greatest specialist of clock multi-scales body/mind and cosmic crystals time like fractal clocks integrated systems is an Indian genius working in a scientific city in Japan on the first artificial brain ( not A.I. ). He proved everything about microtubules relating to the Hameroff-Penrose hypothesis 8 years ago already... Anirban Bandyopadhyay
For me music is perceived holographical multidimensional information...We see music and not only we listen to it... Music is geometry on the making among other thing....Music is also love in the making.... Alain Connes the founder of non-commutative geometry say the same thing as Anirban Bandyopadhyay : It is not so much that music is mathematic like Pythagoreans were claiming, it is mathemathics itself instead which is pure music... Prime numbers distribution is "music of the sphere".... Why? Because mathematics ultimately is a divine beating heart which is the basis of the cosmic memory...Like the human heart is the basis of deep memory... The mathematic of the cosmic memory working translation is now investigated by the school of mathematician, disciple of Grothendieck, Shinichi Mochizuki in his "inter-universal geometry" which is only the mechanism of translation between cellular memories or "universes" ( memories here are also creative imaginations).... But here also i am not competent to formulate any claim, i am deeply interested by these matter because it was a dream of mine when i was 24 years old...If it was not for this dream about the deep meaning of the prime numbers distribution , now confirmed by these geniuses works in very different fields , i will not have been able to recognize through this complex mathematics the truth i was looking for all my adult life.... If you need a proof of "God" or to feel the way love work, listen to Bach and study prime numbers theory....Or/and fall in love.... We do not pay attention , then we kill each other...
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@mahgister I appreciate the data relating to the 432 vs. 440 Hz thing. I have not given the issue much time. I usually tune my instruments to 440 as that is the common standard, and may look into a conscious effort to at least try tuning my guitars (I’m bot a piano tuner, so that bad boy will have to stay “as is” for now) to 440 Hz, see what happens. |
Here another convincing one in favor of 432 hertz:
Conclusion: Only sets of measures of the human metabolism under different frequencies exposure will settle the matter... Research about "conscious" perceived differences between these frequencies are not convincing at all... 😁😊 Why? Because the mind is not the conscious ego, and the effect on the listener is not an effect on his concious ego filtered by conscious biases but effects on his mind/body metabolism which for the most part is a subconscious sea...
To end or to begin the reflection: this very neutral article is interesting with the main proponent, Lyndon Larouche, before Dr. Leonard Horiwitz himself, of "the 440 conspiracy" analysed : Go on the internet to read this article, i cannot put the link to open here...Perfect Pitch: 432 Hz Music and the Promise of Frequency by RE Rosenberg · 2021 |
I must say about the 432 and 440 hertz controversies...I dont know if there is only a pragmatic industry decision behind it, or not, but for sure our body react to frequencies in a direct way our consciousness did not...Then just comparing in non controlled condition few seconds songs to sense if there is a difference or not is preposterous... It is not our biased conscious ability to do so or not, which is at stake here, but the way our body/mind react... The mind is not only the conscious tip of the iceberg we call ego...The mind is the body too... Then we must listen to the two frequencies in an hour long comparison in few days repeat... I am certain that a difference will be perceived... I sense it but my listening is biased for sure... 😁😊
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31031095/
AbstractContext: The current reference frequency for tuning musical instruments is 440 Hz. Some theorists and musicians claim that the 432 Hz tuning has better effects on the human body, but there are no scientific studies that support this hypothesis. Objective: To identify differences in vital parameters and perceptions after listening to music at different frequencies, 440 Hz versus 432 Hz. Design: Cross-over pilot study. Setting: A room dedicated to listening to music, in an Italian city. Participants: 33 volunteers, not suffering from acute and/or chronic diseases. Interventions: Two sessions of music listening on different days. Both sessions used the same music (movie soundtracks) but tuned to 440 Hz on one day and 432 Hz on the other. Each session consisted of 20 min’ listening. Main outcome measures: Vital parameters (blood pressure, heart rate, respiratory rate, oxygen saturation), perceptions (physical and emotional sensations, for example fatigue and stress), levels of concentration during the listening session, and general satisfaction with the experience. Results: 432 Hz tuned music was associated with a slight decrease of mean (systolic and diastolic) blood pressure values (although not significant), a marked decrease in the mean of heart rate (-4.79 bpm, p = 0.05) and a slight decrease of the mean respiratory rate values (1 r.a., p = 0.06), compared to 440 Hz. The subjects were more focused about listening to music and more generally satisfied after the sessions in which they listened to 432 Hz tuned music. Conclusions: The data suggests that 432 Hz tuned music can decrease heart rate more than 440 Hz tuned music. The study results suggest repeating the experiment with a larger sample pool and introducing randomized controlled trials covering more clinical parameters.
But this matter being very complex... There exist also opposite conclusion from other experiment:
https://acousticengineering.wordpress.com/2013/12/13/pitch-shifting-to-432-hz-doesnt-improve-music/
Conclusion: this problem is a bit more complex than meet the eye at first here... I am not enough competent to solve it in an objective way...I hadmy opinion based only in my listening, but it will take me months of study to solve this for sure.... Not 2 articles... 😁😊
But there is another one here in favor of 432 hertz: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31879635/
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I was guiding university students in their readings...3 years, just before covid... My interests included mathematics, poetry, linguistics, spirituality, philosophy mainly... As an aside astrology and natural science.... My main interests is the way all fields of learning are connected by a higher perspective.... In one book the best writer about this , save Goethe himself, is : Jean Gebser, "the ever present origin"... A changing life book.... Try it...But not easy reading at all.... The writer is a polymath... If you study in the same time Ernst Cassirer "philosophy of the symbolic forms" deep exploration of a Goethan semiotic of culture to complete what is lacking in Gebser, you will have the deepest possible perspective in philosphy of knowledge and not only restricted philosophy of science... Cassirer was a deep Goethe scholar after being a Kant one ....He corrected what was missing in Kant by Goethe genetic and phenomenological approach so to speak...Goethe is a greater phenomenologist than even Husserl... But Goethe dont explain itself for the sake of explaining itself, he was in art and natural science writing not philosophy...Leonardo da Vinci used the same method than Goethe before him.... It is astonishing... This goethean method is best described by a physicist disciple of David Bohm in few books : Henri Bortoft.... And this method is extensively applied in animal morphology by Wolgang Schad in an 1300 pages master book so great that anyone who read it will fall of his chair...😁😊
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i was answering about this problem by the immediate only solution : an awakening of the musicians themselves...
But you are right about this "conspiration"...
It is not the first and last "conspiration" origin ...A change so impactful cannot be implemented only by ignorance.... Medecine and education and banking were oriented by another "conspirations"... History is like hunting, there is tracks... And ordinary people, me included, cannot fathom evil depth...It takes a Dostoievesky at least...Where is our Dostoievsky today? The only writer who described all this crisis i know of and most importantly proposed pragmatical and spiritual solutions died in 1925... He described before his visible advent the transhumanism/ globalist/ technological cult agenda orientation in this world in details... Rudolf Steiner... The greatest Goethe scholar...A chistian seer also.... He wrote about agriculture, medecine, education, art, science and spirituality... He will be understood better soon, materialism is dying but alas! technology cult replace it... But humanity will not accept it.... If we do, we lost all freedom... The agenda is clearly written by Klaus Schwab and Yuval Noah Harari...Only ignorance can deny it...
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One thing the author didn’t mention was the advertising, the hype that made you want to run out and get that Beatles, Clapton, Who album. Someone mentioned a group called The War On Drugs. A good current group that I stumbled upon. There was no massive blitz when their last album dropped. There was nobody waiting in line to buy a copy. To me, that’s the biggest difference. Like Netflix, a music streaming service can only suggest what their algorithms say you might like, but there’s so much more out there. |
I find most modern music to be degenerate and ugly. There are of course exceptions, but the to my ears with pitch correction being used as a production feature rather than a fix for poor vocals means that a lot of music now sounds like a robot singing over a simple beat. Much new music seems to be made to be played over phone speakers, probably the very worst sound reproduction equipment after the AM radio in your granddaddy’s Corvair. Music production and engineering has suffered terribly with the advent of DAWs and the loudness wars. Not to mention the "musician" has been replaced by the "artist" as in no way could you call these "artists" "musicians". They can’t sing, don’t play an instrument, don’t write songs, just shake their asses on stage while fireworks go off. For me music production peaked in the 1970s, when producers poured almost unlimited funds into an album, and featured actual song writers and musicians. Deutsche Grammophon in the 1970s somehow managed to capture every element of an orchestra through multiple microphone placements and mixing to draw out individual sections of the orchestra, especially the woodwinds which tend to be drowned out by modern massive string sections. Their use of giant resonators in the basement of their concert hall gave the Berlin Philharmonic’s brass section a wonderful power and edge to the sound. Modern classical recording tend to suffer from what I call "the blob" where a single microphone reduces the textures and separation of the orchestra to a single blob in the middle of the stereo image. Computer production now means that there is really no need for audio engineers to get creative in the studio like The Beatles, Brian Eno and Bowie used to do, and it shows. Again there are of course exceptions. Daft Punk’s Random Access Memories for example, they spent a million dollars of their own money to produce it on analog tape and digital and spent months mixing and mastering it, it is a triumph of music production. And the songs are wonderful, they tell stories. Tame Impala and War on Drugs are some other bands that sound great on record. |
I disagree with your reply, and offer you... The real push behind it was nefarious, though that is denied by those who had the power to make it so. But it is musician that must decide to use this frequency or not.... Engineer can do nothing save "reproduce" what musician decide they will play... And this is another question only musicians can decide anyway...
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Thanks! Very entertaining and a grain of salt of truth probably... I worked with gifted students in all fields all my life my only close contact with less awake people so to speak was on the bus...😉 Now retired, i am alone, and i take the pulse of humanity here in this forum... 😁😊
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Everybody know who Biden is....More despicable than the clown Trump, who at least never encourage war... I am sorry for us and for America....
Even Biden’s most ardent admirers must be having a few second thoughts by now, surely they must? Isn’t it obvious that he’s a patsy, fall guy, beard for someone else - albeit an avaricious self serving one? Someone with a terrible sense of humour.
As for the rest of the US electorate, they have my sympathy too. Not everyone can relocate to red states like Florida or Texas. |
The Flynn effect is now reversing it’s course. Ie, that people are literally getting less intelligent. Literally. perhaps the combination of things it takes to get to good music is taking this reversing effect and showing how bad it is, like a canary in the coal mine. About a decade ago I finally decided that the effect that I saw was generalized enough and obvious enough that I was fairly confident that what the future seems to be holding..is a splitting into a definable two - of the human race. The actual beginnings of a homo superior vector vs a homo regressus vector. This, outside of all the other complexities of such an idea in analysis. (very complex mess, obviously, so debating it is difficult, at best). Eg, what does the end of the boomer years say about all of this? good luck measuring that...besides the complexities of coming up with good testable hypothesis and the like. Re the Flynnn effect..it seems as if Idiocracy actually is on the record, now, as being a real thing at least with respect to the current course of humanity, in the now.... Does our social humane integrity end up painting us into a corner? What is even the question? |
Thanks for your kind words....
Music is an information hologram....Metaphorically and in real time.... I use music here in the MORE extensive general meaning of the word... First: the first model of "Artificial consciousness" ( not artificial Intelligence here, the difference between A.I. statistical dynamical model and Anirban artificial brain is like the difference between a tool and a genuine brain using it ) use a "musical" set of tool, a musical geometry so to speak... Or time crystal fractals ladder of clocks ... Read his site to have an idea.... Anirban Bandyopadhyay.... https://www.nims.go.jp/nanophys6/Anirban%20Bandyopadhyay/site/index.htm The books is this one, completely amazing genius with a take on consciousness which is techologically superior to anything i ever heard of....... "Nano brains" https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B086Q43W37/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_bibl_vppi_i0 these videos introduce easily: https://www.closertotruth.com/contributor/anirban-bandyopadhyay/profile The writer is one if not the leader in in cycles and rythmic time geometry and information theory ... His ideas were anticipated by a mathematician decade ago unknown to most, i read at the times, Charles Musès : Destiny and control in human systems. Studies in the interactive connectedness of time (chronotopology) (= Frontiers in systems research.). Kluwer-Nijhoff, Dordrecht/ Boston u. a. 1985 Anirban Bandyopadhyay theory, like Musès perspective is ultimately about musical synchronisation of all events explaining "life".... In a complete different direction the great mathematician Alain Connes, father of non commutative geometry, explain the relation with time and music converging in his own way to Aniban theory from a complete different perspective...The deep meaning of prime numbers distribution and a musical interpretation of it... But his theory is even more difficult than Anirban technological tools descriptions and his new non-algorithmic and non-Turing theory of brain/consciousness... But the two reveal the breathtaking depth of vibrations and the music metaphorical and chronotopological meaning , Anirban Bandyopadhyay and Alain Connes the two geniuses, use the music of the prime numbers distribution at the CENTER of their theory, think about that a second.... 😁😊 You will fall of your chair understanding the meaning behind this fact trust me .... It will take time if you are new to this difficult subject matter though...
The mathematical/philosophical works of Ernest Ansermet the great french maestro about noetic qualitative logarythm and the way music is not a pure object but a position taken by a perspectival subject located in his own space give also a deep take on Occidental tonal history but i think the 1200 pages book is only in french...
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That is a very good article, of course as an old timer I would consider it so. I well remember `Dark side of the moon` released when I was in high school. Along with Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Uriah Heep and many others we had a rich source of musical material to keep us happy. Buy even in those days there was a lot of dross on the radio. The difference was that there was investment in new and creative music. |
Thanks for sharing that video about Alan Mearns. I just bought two of his CD's. Too bad he doesn't have analog (LP) form for sale. . . Your perspectives about music and the global trends are quite interesting. . . I'm a Bach aficionado myself, with the trappings that come with that. I'll have to look into the mathematical metaphor that music may represent in more detail. . . any pointers for researching that topic? |
Coming back to the thread matter... Like for music we can enjoy now thanks to internet, all the great movies of the last century...From an era where artist like Fellini were free... We can enjoy movies from any country and be spared from the worst of Hollywood cooking burger factory... This is on one side corporate destruction of art and on the other side we can enjoy true art in an easy way if we know where to look for... Then my pessimism dont tell all the story... Never in my life i enjoyed so great musicians in so great numbers... Anyway financial capitalism is dying....We can hope....
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I will not contradict anything about your post... Most people dont even think enough to know that Assange was a journalist, respectful of laws, they think he is a "traitor", they are like zombies wanting to kill someone who tried to awake them... There is no freedom anymore in Canada, with Trudeau, only an appearence of freedom , now in the media no one dare to speak his mind... In America the appearence of freedom is more convincing, but it is only an appearence.... All Occidental powers admire China success and control....
It is China not medecine who thaught government to control mass during the pandemic... China and Gates/Fauci corporation.... The world economic forum say it loud... No one pay attention... And now in the world only one man is responsible for all problems , probably for covid too and the economic crisis, and why not also of the woke new "communism" totalitarian movement ? And for sure he reacted by aggression to 8 years of civil war payed by Otan in Ukraine against the third of the country speaking Russian... I will not name this man....Biden see through " his evil soul"... Everybody know who Biden is....More despicable than the clown Trump, who at least never encourage war... I am sorry for us and for America....
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"Stanley Kubrick will not be possible today, he will not be free to do his own art...He will be a slave to a movie business...He will kill himself because he was so talented... Who kill Orson Welles genius? Corporate powers...Nowadays they are more powerful because all united and controlled by very few men ... Where is the human, poetical, philosophical content of most movies nowadays ?"
Let's face it, even such noted auteurs such as Alfred Hitchcock, Stanley Kubrick, and Woody Allen took some time to buy their freedom from the 'corporate powers'. According to a Robert Mitchum biography (Baby, I Don't Care) it doesn't appear as if things were that much different back then. Back in 1950 Howard Hughes recalled arty director Josef Von Sternberg out of retirement to shoot RKOs 1950 movie, Macao. Things didn't go so well for the autocratic von Sternberg who soon found himself reminded of his place in the pecking order by Mitchum himself when he threatened to fire the rising star for disrespectful behaviour. "If anyone gets fired around here, it'll be you "
What disturbs me is that the 'corporate powers' now seem to have an all powerful grip on the entire production chain from creation to the delivery outlets. And everything in between. Independent movies still exist but who gets to see them? For example, how many folks have heard about celebrated UK comedian Rik Mayall's final film, 2014s One by One? Given what's happened since, this film now seems to be highly prophetic. So why then isn't it shown more? If they can so easily airbrush out the work of someone as well known as Mayall, it looks as if something rather unpleasant has happened to both our freedom of speech and freedom of expression. It's definitely not a good climate for artistic production as it now looks as if we're following the same old cold war policies of the USSR or China's CCP when it comes to what can and what can't be allowed in art. Only now, it's being exercised by the power of corporate money rather than communist show trials. Give them time, give them time... Let them make a demonstration of Julian Assange first. |
By the way it is not only some " music that has lost his charms" , music for the crowds for sure, because the number of great artists musicians has never been lowered; but cinema and popular movies for the crowds are more horrible than ever too , but the number of great movie makers has not declined ever , it is what the corporations control, the mass product which is atrocious and being made for low I.Q. people and made to lower our intelligence more...True artists are marginalized and pushed in a corner with less freedom all over earth but especially where big business reign supreme... ....
Compare the more attractive mass movie of the beginning of the seventies with movies these years.... Compare the story line and the level of complexity in plot and cinematography... A great work of art is also a riddle for the intelligence like an I.Q. test... Interpretation is part of art...
There exist then the same phenomenon than in music industry... More "popular" products reduced to be commercial junk product with no soul for no brain.... But the number of great artists is not less numerous but they dont have the visibility and the money to work better... Big corporation power is death....More the technology progress less the art grows nowadays, it is not means nor in the obligation to be this way in civilization ... Because technology is used by businessman who control the content not by artists first ...And the cult of technology is death anyway... Music and cinema are not the only fields destroyed by big growing corporations owned by few and fewer people than ever in a less and less competitive world than ever .... Guess which are the others human fields of life in society which are affected for the worst? Politic, medecine and science itself.... Knowledge is not science and science is not technology ....
Stanley Kubrick will not be possible today, he will not be free to do his own art...He will be a slave to a movie business...He will kill himself because he was so talented... Who kill Orson Welles genius? Corporate powers...Nowadays they are more powerful because all united and controlled by very few men ... Where is the human, poetical, philosophical content of most movies nowadays ? In the trash bin... Anyway the masses are no more guided by any ideals, religious or others...They listen and spoke only to a phone.... The destruction of education is the master work of big corporation, the higher education is mostly a taming of beast and a training of brain for big business... I cannot imagine what Dostoievsky or Mark Twain will wrote today and who will read them ..
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When i claimed music content is "holographic information", in my erased/censored post above, it is not a useless metaphor... It is an exact mathematical metaphor... Music is produced by man in a non commutaitve space... Music information is not Hertz only it is chords distributions in a dynamic non commutative space... It is not my saying by the way, but the claims of one of the greatest mathematician on earth : Alain Connes... I posted a video above...
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Yes we must work a lot to discover new music... But the number ofnew geniuses is astounding and growing ... More than ever... They are marginalized by the industries and by ignorant deaf crowds listening to their commercialized shit because uneducated by anyone ....
We must learn music, anyone saying the opposite is not only ignorant but musically dead... Reacting passively to the same shit all our life is perhaps "entertaining" for some but pure conditioning implementation by corporations without even any working by our own consciousness... Music is not only about nostalgia, but about awakening our spirit, emotionnaly to a higher level of perception... It is "seeing" music like some perceive geometry or a movie... Music contains so much holographic information than it make the heart beat out of your body at a higher rate... Music is a dancing with or without the need for a body... It is a seing with and/or without eyes.... It is a speaking with or/and without voices... It is a color perception with or/and without any colors you already know... Each cultural expression of music is like a new other planets to explore... It is more than thrilling.... Then i am like most for sure, i love to feel nostalgia for some old song of the years 50/60/70... But if it is your only notion of what music is, you lack most of music information body... And those who dont listen at least jazz and classical, if not all cultural expression of music are almost spiritually deaf... Sorry... This is not my opinion it is the truth manifested through music complexities... If you dont train yourself to understand complexities , they appear like a boring, confusing , headache, it is perhaps simpler to accuse other ofbeing "snob" instead of acknowledging our own limitation, acknoledging them and trying by listening experiments to "boldly go where no man has gone before".... Music is not sound we already know only, it is a movie we have never seen or feel ever before... It is a new planet, a new life, and a new understanding.... Nothing less...It is not a commercial "tune" ONLY .... Read me right i like very much popular music too... I spend money on great musicians like Bob Dylan and Leonard Cohen and many others... But it is only a small part of music.... And popular music in China or India is not Popular music on the american Radio.... The only music i hate is commercially motivated music....
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I wonder how many people know who Howard Tullman is or even read through the article. I was on his legal team during the initial JamTV/Tunes.com work. He's definitely not a small minded guy. He does like to stir the pot. If you read to the bottom, his main point, really, was that big music execs got greedy and complacent and didn't innovate. The article was in Inc. magazine and he was making a business point. But yeah, the top of the article does make him sound a bit like Old Man Screaming at the Sky. He does acknowledge the music activity in indie circles, but I doubt he's dipped very far into that. To address the main debate going on in this thread, there most certainly is plenty of good new music coming out. Oddly, it's harder to find...or should I say it is easy as it has ever been to find, but harder to identify. Mainstream media just doesn't do the variety of art justice. It does take work to find great new music. You need a thread to pull. Roon actually helps with this, when it's working. You want some recommendations for great new music? Here you go:
There's really lots. Find something you like and pull that thread! |
For sure you are right, but this is not the point at debate at all... For sure there are plenty of living musical events all around North America... Each months...Many in each cities... The great musicians must played somewhere...No ? No one contested that... The Author of the article dont contest that neither me... He spoke about the industrialization of music in official channels and media... Corporations never killed PHYSICALLY the great crowds of musicians 😁😊 which exist nowadays in greater number than ever... They enslaved some and marginalized the others...They control distributions and the way the products will be market... Why do you think that there is a huge boom all around the earth with an indefinite numbers of homemade small self recording labels ? This is the point... Too much people listen to horrible commercial music, and many dont even know jazz nor classical, neither any of the numerous musical cultures on earth...They are even proud of it and wrote it in their post... Stupendous ignorance pride... And they will call me a snob jerk for sure... 😁😊 This is the point... But there is also, it is the good news access , thanks to internet, to all great artists on earth....And there is more great musicians than ever... We are 8 billions people... Those who remain deaf and never listen to jazz, nor classical, nor to any of the musical cultural traditions are in great numbers too and lack an education... We lack education in music it is evident.... Then dont put in my mouth what i never said, i never claim that all great musicians are dead, or rare, or dying... They are more numerous than ever... But how did they get a chance to be listen to and make a living? Popular music is half of it pure junk, half of it roughly....But this junk take most of the official visible space in the news... How do we cure the industry? By education, and by pointing to the stupid economical working of corporate deaf powers....like the author ofthis article did.... Musicians must decide about music not businessman.... Art is not a business nor a democracy.... Then do your own research too... I myself discover a genius in music almost each week... I know excatly like you that great music has never been so easy to access... In recorded format or in living event... But never before, the radio, and Tv and the crowds of consumers plug on their telephone ever listen to the most horrible musical trash ever created... This is a fact too...
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Do your own research. Try to find every place in your area where music is actually being played and go listen. Bars, parks, churches, nightclubs, community centers, concert halls, college campuses, don't stop there! One of the towns near us has free concerts inside City Hall in the winter & on the lawn outside in the summer. There are summer concerts on an island, a ferry ride away. My experience is that it is still all there. Not just music that charms, but music that entrances, music that makes you laugh, music that makes you cry, music that overwhelms, music that changes your life... |
You wrote this yourself:
Then you listen to what, african traditional music, for example pygmies polyphony? they are marvellous.. You listen to Yoruba drum, one of the most astonishing drumming masters on earth? Do you listen the poetical Erhu? Do you listen the Rudra Veena ? Do you listen sufi music? Do you know anything about North-african music? I think you listen mainly "commercial" music which sometimes can be very good, and popular, but at least half is pure junk...You say it yourself.... Then why answering a thread about music quality listening declining for market conditioning reason , you spoke like if your right of tasting junk food like others taste high culinary dishes must be written in the American Constitution like arms right are? You are "free" indeed... The constitution dont protect people against corporation indoctrination of mases methods sorry if you dont know that... But dont claim you know what music is.... You dont... Simple.... Sorry...
Go on with your empty content post and i will go on with my "boring" one ... ’ |
A non commercially motivated piece of music can be a popular one and often is... All commercial pieces did not have some artistic value though...And this junk dominate many communication chanels... The writer of these article wrote about the ratio Popular music versus purely commercially motivated music, this ratio resembling more nowadays to a slippery slope toward mediocrity...In the sixties for example he was right, the ratio commercially motivated and musical quality was very good and better than today ON OFFICIAL MEDIAS ... He did not claim that there exist no more good musicians... They are marginalized...And anyway the musical education standard is lower in all scools for money reason and anyway music is perceived to be useless for most people... This writer will never negateand he did not that the quantity of true great artists all over the world surpass anything in the past...it is a demographical fact....But there is no musical education in general and a total ignorance of any different musical instruments or different cultural styles out of traditional modern popular and/or commercial one in North America... Most young are not exposed to higher quality music, dont listen it first, and dont even know jazz or classical, they have no idea about Chinese, Indian , Persian, Turkisch music too etc... They dont understand music, they "taste" it like a Macdo burger asking for a Macdo burger till their death...Trump is very rich, guest what he eat? Music must be learned.... But in the North American medias and channels, no education, no publicity for world great musicians... Have you ever listen to the marvellous sarangi in north america ? Where and when ? Dont project your prejudices on the writer of this article try to understand his point.... Yes we are lucky those of us who appreciate music high spiritual meaning to listen now to more great musicians living than in all the past...yes...It is a demographical fact... But north American masses are keep in chains and in conditioned slavery by marketing and schooling methods of the corporate empire, in all fields of life, and in music too... We are on the verge of self destruction and some will claim that this is their "taste" and they are free to want it...
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'Some guy on the internet' who wrote this:
knows nothing about me but sure knows how to write long-winded, boring posts. |
@robones54 Agree with you on Sirius radio sound quality. However, streaming sound quality extremely variable depending on source and streaming equipment. I've had high end cd transports in past, my present streaming setup exceeds any cd playback I had, also exceeds pretty nice present vinyl setup. One can have both vast music selection and highest sound quality with streaming
. I also find it odd that some claim they have greater selection with physical media vs. streaming, I have at least 2500 cds and 3500 lp's, extremely rare any of this physical media not available with streaming. Much more likely, streams not available on any physical media, many releases will never be available on physical media, either due to being cut outs or having never been released on physical media.
I observe a lot of disdain for more contemporary artists and releases due to disdain for streaming technology and perhaps the entire zeitgeist of contemporary society. There is a burgeoning 'culture of complaint' out there, many turn away, or purposely choose ignorance to avoid having to interface with new artists they assume are part of a culture/society they don't like. Too bad, so many wonderful messages and feelings evoked by many contemporary artists! On streaming front, no media is perfect, avoiding streaming for unjustified prejudicial reasons denies one a wonderful musical experience. |
I'm 57, I laugh at this author just as I do with everyone else that believes this. The rate of good quality music being produced hasn't changed. The medium that brings it to our ears has, and it fills them with crap if we just turn on a radio or SiriusXM as our choices of content. I like classic rock, if somebody decides that's what they want to listen to, I'm perfectly fine with it. I grow tired of listening to familiar music, so, I choose whatever fits my mood. I believe pop music has been ruined by Streaming and satellite radio due to the lack of fidelity in their modes of transport. When XM appeared in the stores as an accessory for your car, I was walking around Manhattan playing home recorded cassettes through a decent walkman and Koss PortaPro headphones. I came upon a Sony XM unit in a store, working, with a headphone jack, hmmm. I plugged in my headphones, found a music channel and "meh", tried another, and another, "Are they joking?!" The music quality was somewhere between AM and FM playing through a 9 volt handheld. Like mp3 recordings, weren't any better. I also discovered my wife and kids didn't care if XM or mp3s didn't sound as good as a CD. On the road, the satellite radio is acceptable quality, but, I haven't found a single station I can tolerate for even an hour. The playlists are either boring or irritating. I've had a Pandora subscription for a few years. Their "Nusic Genome Project" provided decent playlists to start from. The player lets me look back on what played, vote yay or nay to tailor the list and also search out an artist for more music and more artists. They also added a stream quality option. I have it set to high and it's noticeably better than standard. When I use Bluetooth in my truck, it's better sound quality than SiriusXM. At home, my Yamaha receiver came with an external Bluetooth adapter, I've since upgraded the adapter to a unit with LDAC and it streams 96K/24 from my Samsung S22 Ultra to my receiver, which I set to direct (processing bypassed) to drive a Parasound A21 to AR303s. I also have music I purchased, stored on my phone, in flac 96K/24, that I can stream as well. I've noticed the music quality streaming from Pandora is generally good, but the sound quality varies, from sounding like a low bandwidth mp3 that my daughter found on BearShare, to sounding as good as the 96K/24 Hi Res works that I bought from HDtracks. Since the Hi Res streaming services have made it to prime time, I decided to check them out. I discovered the same problem. It isn't the bandwidth limiting the sonic quality of the music anymore it's the engineering applied to the recording. I imagine it boils down to how much control an artist has while producing a record and how much they care about the playback quality delivered to the public. Since I've discovered Internet and streaming, I've listened to many genres of artists, old and new, that I haven't heard before, and I really enjoy what's out there. I've been enlightened by vocals, Jazz, Blues, roots rock, Americana, folk, rockabilly, swing, and fusions of whatever. I haven't searched for classical (maybe someday). Most of what I listen to isn't played on the radio or SiriusXM. So, if you think nobody makes good music anymore, you haven't really looked. |
Returning to present streaming business model, and my statement "nothing inherently wrong with it".
Streaming business model could be many things, supply and demand are but one imposition on it, another important component would be artists leverage. In society where masses value artists highly, artists could pursue association, backed by masses, and demand higher remuneration. This leverage would be in the form of threatened or actively pursued strike by artists and/or boycotts by consumers. As things stand, owners of streaming services hold all the cards, and if not them record companies, distributors, etc.
Artists supply the content, based on how money presently distributed, you'd think many artists don't exist, like giving away one's labor for free while others profit. True upside down world! Value I receive from music is far more than my costs, and I give to my local student and university radio stations, and attend live concerts. I doubt physical media going to be future of music distribution, streaming business models will only change for betterment of artists if society values them more highly.
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@jim5559 ”Unless they listen to Jazz or Classical (capitol letters, huh? Interesting…) people under 70 listen to junk and have no idea what good music is.” Where to begin with a statement like this. Ay yi yi… |
The wonderful documentary, “Heart’s of Darkness: A Filmmaker’s Apocalypse” features recorded conversations of Francis Ford Coppola with his wife, Eleanor. These conversations feature Mr. Coppola expressing enormous anxiety about whether he is making a “sh***y, pompous, bad movie.” He had assets, set pieces, clout, bankable stars, plenty of stuff that could have caused him to be content, rest on his laurels, and get away with an unscrupulous attention to detail, emotional resonance, truthful social commentary and truthful examination of human nature. He didn’t. These concerns drive him to the brink of madness because he cared about them deeply. I think we can recognize when artists care in this way, and when they do not. -------
I've seen that documentary a couple of times and it's certainly well put together. Nevertheless, wasn't there an awful lot of frantic improvisation and rewriting required after Marlon Brando turned up in an unexpected physical condition? When you also consider that Martin Sheen suffered a minor heart attack during the making of Apocalypse Now, there's no doubting the seriousness of its director's intentions. The fact that Coppola somehow made it all work out and still pull in a healthy profit just shows the unpredictable power of art that can sometimes transcend the intentions of its creator.
The real trick facing all artists, whatever their medium, is how to create something of artistic merit that also succeeds commercially. Remember the old 10cc line? "Art for arts sake Money for Gods sake"
I believe some of us certainly can distinguish between a sincere artistic effort and a purely calculating commercial one. Unfortunately, for us at least, it seems as if far too many people cynically opt for the second part.
Either way, whichever one is more important to the creator will be difficult enough to achieve alone. To succeed at both is quite something else. |
The fact that we are free to listen to anything, dont implicate that our own "taste" rule... You dont know what music is ,then why attacking simple elementary fact: Admit that you have no idea of what music really is... How can you? i myself appreciate and like ALL music on earth, with the exception of "commercial" music ....It is not my "taste" here, it is my musical education which rule... Dont promote your "taste" to be knowledge... You dont know anything, being proud of it, dont make it right and will never did.... Then if an old man say that if people dont appreciate jazz nor classical, nor any cultural classical music of any countries, save "commercially" produced music, they dont know what music is, this old man is not a diplomat for sure,😊 but he is right....
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There is a way to say truth... We can let the reader attain his own conclusion without imposing it or we can suggest it... 😁😊
Music is not first about taste or only entertainment...Sorry... We are not crocodiles arguing for our rotten corpse taste freedom right here... We dont need "a flag to be proud of " to unite all those who, like larsman because they never had any musical education and evolution, think that their apparent "freedom" to choose the only musical world that they know is not unbeknownst to them, an direct expression of their own mental chains.... Music and sound is not about "tastes" freedom first and last ... Music is about cultural education and sound is about acoustic / psycho-acoustic knowledge... But nowadays it is a bad, very bad thing to say the simple truth... Even elementary one... Everybody ask for the freedom to sniff HIS shit... Are we a society of tribal apes arguing about evidences? "Freedom" is for mature citizen when they act, not for children in school waiting to be educated...The music teacher is not in the obligation to serve them and their freedom with the usual commercial shit and justify and approve their ignorance...Teachers are free mature citizens...They are not the slave worker of the pupil’parents money...
And by the way all " popular" music is not "commercial" shit music...I say that for the idiots who will confuse the two categories to destroy my argument...I like many popular music pieces for musical reason.. But we must distinguish the two and learn how to do so with a musical education.... And if we own an audio system, we must learn how to listen with an acoustic education...Marketing brand name "taste" choices express often only complete ignorance even when they are justified by sound design science ...Acoustic basic fact are not "tastes" categories about brand name products even when they are good products sorry ...Learning how to listen is NOT BUYING a piece of gear, even a good one...
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If you are on the web, an older individual (I consider myself somewhat in that vein) wasting both time and mental energy to rant about the quality of music made today, while extolling the virtues of your personally favourite time and genre, then ...... oh heck, if you can't figure out the conclusion to this sentence, nothing I say is going to change anything :-)
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