Boy, Oh Boy! Towshend!

OK, I have elevated my belief in isolation.  For the first time I feel I have entered the Hi Fidelity zone.  About 3 weeks ago I purchased the Townshend Speaker Bars.  My muddy bass cleaned up, I have better imaging, clarity, precision, speed and focus.  My buddy who is not not into HiFi but has followed my adventures, was blown away.  He said, "OK, now I get why you do this."  Best money spent! 

Denon DL160 (re-tipped by Soundsmith) > Thorens TD150 > McIntosh 8900 > ALK Extreme Slope in Klipsch Belles.  Just another step in the long journey, but a Giant Step for my enjoyment.  My system took a large enough step forward that I am drawn into listening to all of my 2K plus albums again just to enjoy them in a new way. Great people to deal with too, even with Brexit messing things up.  Highly recommended!
I am not associated with them in any way, just want to pass it on.

Interesting, guessing that you had good isolation already pre-install.  I don't feel I did.  My source is currently my weak link with original Kugel Arm on the TD 150.  I feel that my speakers low end was feeding right back into it.  Wondering if I had replaced the arm and/or table first perhaps I would have noticed a similar change.  We shall see...
Speakers blu tacked to stands is all you need. Stands spiked through carpet and in contact with concrete. Stands filled with for me.
Atacama custom built stands for Tannoy Eatons, built like a tank.
I'm not surprised.  Having experimented with spring-based footers beneath my speakers the difference was substantial and I intend to order Townshend Isolation Bars at some point.

Mine were on cones through carpet & clamped to the ceiling. There was improvement but closer to minor than major. I don’t doubt your wholesale uograde. Just no guarantee it will be for everyone.
Or you could try some Soundocity outriggers combined with Isoacoustics Gaias.
Congrats Dude!  I love those “aha” moments.  First thing I want to do is post here and share with everyone what I found. I appreciate you doing the same. Helps us all achieve better sound.

I’m a believer in isolation for sure.  I will check into Townsend.  Just about everone who tries them is impressed with them.

Happy Listening!
Haven't tried bars but they are all the same basic technology, the precision-damped spring. It is in a way just like everything else, just another attempt at isolation. But Townshend does it so well when you put a component on there it is not like it gets a little better, it is more like a significant component upgrade. Not a little better, a whole new thing. Really. Which is hard for a lot of people to believe, but true, and I only wish more people knew. So thanks for sharing.
I don’t know when people started manufacturing these types of isolation devices for speakers.  Does anyone here know?  But it sure qualifies as a great leap in hifi audio history.  Possibly as big as any other recent speaker technology innovation.  I’ve experience with the isoacoustics oreas and Gaias only, but damn, indispensable.
I'm glad you tried them! Seriously there are a lot of folks on these forums that explain why this or that is equal to or better than what you just actually listened to! They have a free 30 trial! try them! I agree with fuzztone that your mileage will vary. I put Townsend Podiums under my speakers and they made a significant positive change. Townsend will tell you that the Podiums under your speakers are the best bang for the buck, but when I put my streamer/DAC and my preamp on Platforms and PODs they took a ringing/sibilance out of my system that I had been fighting for some time. I will not be without Townsend isolation under my gear, its was a system game changer for me.
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I'm intrigued! What do you guys recommend for placing under speaker stands? Does Townshend make a product for this purpose?
I put Townsend bars under my speakers a few weeks ago.  Money very well spent. Liked them so much I added their stands for the amps.  Also a noticeable difference.  I have tried all the home remedies and tweaks that others have suggested over the years.  Nothing comes close to the difference the Townsend products made.
I use isoacoustics gaia under my tannoy ardens same result... An amazing jump in quality 
Do these work for stand mounted bookshelf speakers? Specifically Joseph Audio Pulsar on Solidsteel 3 legged stands. I already applied blu tac and filled the stands but I can feel vibrations when I touch the stands and I have muddy bass around 60-100hz
@arafiq: The part of the Townshend Audio Seismic products---all of them---that provides the majority of the isolation they afford is the Seismic Pod, which is built into the Platform, Podium, and Bars.

The Pods are available separately in sets of 4, and can be used under loudspeaker stands, or secured to outriggers. I have them bolted onto my Sound Anchor stands, a killer combination. 
I’ve been using Blu-Tack for at least a decade. Yes it’s good, very good.
+1 audioguy85

  • However I would absolutely use it in conjunction with isolation methods, such as well engineered Townshend products.

@millercarbon - this is something you aught to try, between your Moabs and the podiums. It is indeed a versatile and useful putty indeed (two indeeds, I really do agree). Also useful as a gasket on drivers (subs).

@edgyhassle - I’ve heard the bars on a pair of (75Kg) 165lb floor standers, and yes it cleans up a lot of energies, which in turn helps to make speakers disappear by removing colouration (good ’ol English spelling right there) :-)
Great investment in your system, mate.

The bars work exceptionally well, bdp24 is correct, there are many ways they can be implemented and assuredly provide gains for systems not employing isolation techniques.
I can't comment on the speaker podiums but I recently purchased their Isolation Platform for my VPI Prime Signature and it made a significant difference. I mean major! Highly recommended.
@arthur1260 I use springs on my stand mounts, and it makes a very significant difference.

You could use Blu-Tack to secure the flat bottoms of your stands on the podiums, or drill tap and bolt them once you’re satisfied they are the bump in performance I suggest you will hear. Bolting the stand to the podiums, or clamping them ensures security for your handsome looking speakers.
I just saw the PULSAR2 Graphene - just wow.

You haven’t posted a system page, I went to see if they have a space enough to pass a beam or something to clamp your tri-stands on podiums without modifications. You just never know when you might want to upgrade and sell me your podiums... (did I really just type that out aloud?)
@arthur1260I agree its best to secure the speakers and stand if using them with the Townshend podiums, bars or pods.  It is pretty crazy watching my 125 lb 20"x30" Belles float.  When I touch them they move like a suspended turntable.  It would make me nervous if they were on stands.  Definitely want to secure them.

The reason for going for bars over podiums was due to the size of my speakers they would have necessitated a custom built podium, which they will do, but out of my budget.  Picked up the bars for much less and am very happy.  They told me that the advantage of the podium over bars was that the isolation was spread out over a larger area.

@edgyhassle - I suspect (it is a guess, I will admit) that the bars do such a significantly effective job with your heavy speakers, that the small increase in performance the podiums may represent would not represent the bang for buck you have made. I think it was a prudent choice, one for which you are not suffering at all. And being able to secure the bars to the body of your enclosure (did you use screws?) would certainly give peace of mind.

It is curious to move such a heavy object with a small gesture from just the pinky finger, and for those who haven't experienced it.... They do settle down to equilibrium, and when music is playing literally appear totally motionless.

FWIW, I did not have a positive experience with the Podiums and my Harbeth 30.1 on TonTräger stands. I believe that there were two reasons, the first being that the 30.1 have limitations in terms of bass reproduction, and the reduction, slight as it may be, due to the Podiums, was too much, to my ears.

The second relates to the stands themselves, and likely to any stands that are used. The Podiums are, of course, designed to decouple the speakers from the floor, but when speakers are placed on stands, there will be some vibration between them. So even if the Podiums have their intended effect, they obviously can't prevent interaction between the speaker and the stand. I do not know to what degree that latter issue is a problem, as the reduction in bass was enough for me to sell the Podiums on. 

To be clear, they are very well made, and based on the testimonials, they seem to perform well when used with (certain) floor standing speakers. But I do have some doubts about their benefits with stand-mounted speakers for the reasons mentioned, and would suggest proceeding with caution.
The Podiums are, of course, designed to decouple the speakers from the floor, but when speakers are placed on stands, there will be some vibration between them. So even if the Podiums have their intended effect, they obviously can’t prevent interaction between the speaker and the stand.
Yes, you’re right. It’s a consideration I have contemplated myself actually.
Laminating a softer material to them can dampen the ringing and also move resonant frequencies outside important frequencies.

@arthur1260 whipsaw has brought up an important point, and I’m likely to try something like and wrap it around the uprights, secured with tape as a proof of concept, before trying something more permanent.
I’d prefer
however the white isn’t going to look good for me. Maybe both?

Another approach was to use a corner foam bass trap and cut out for the front leg of the stands and sit it in there to help clean up imaging, as back pressure moving around the stand mount’s bass driver will be reflected from the front edge of the stand closest to the speaker.

To mitigate the seeming loss of bass, because it won’t be transferred through the substrate, using a TMD on top of your speaker, will tighten up the bass, the bass will be punchier and have more speed.
It will require tuning the mass, and playing with the absorber material, however even without precision, benefits for modest cost and time will yield good results.

@audioguy85 - I'll be checking out atabites, I've only used ilmenite also with good results. Cheers.
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Does Townshend have a USA dealer for the seismic isolation bars? Everything I see is UK.
Check out my Townshend Platform review in the members review section.

@hickamore - No US dealer you have to order direct from Townshend and they ship from the UK
It is pretty crazy watching my 125 lb 20"x30" Belles float. When I touch them they move like a suspended turntable. It would make me nervous if they were on stands. Definitely want to secure them.

That I would like to see. Speakers safety-wired, like the hood on a Mustang. Way cool.

Lots of things work to isolate speakers and make a big difference in sound when needed (not always needed). It’s not rocket science and need not cost a fortune.
@arthur1260 - scratch the idea of using open cell foam on the front of your stands, I just tried it with 4" foam from the floor to base of speakers, it didn’t make any noticeable difference. And my stands when I rap my knuckles on them they ring a little.

Mapman is correct, experimentation isn’t going to cost you much to get an idea if it’s going to benefit you or not. The Townshend products have been developed over decades of experience, and rarely don’t improve the sound of speakers in my experience, and many reports here in Agon. An example of probably not needed is electrostatic panel speakers for example, well unless it has a sub built in, or dipole speakers...etc.

Many of us have been trying to get the word out, because we want others to get a the benefits of isolation technology. There’s plenty of threads where isolation is used on all types of devices, the greatest improvement across the board, seems to be speakers, it affects both the analog and digital crowd.

And millercarbon, before you go there about analog - Anti-NIKE
Just Don’t Do IT! hahahahaha
Speakers safety-wired, like the hood on a Mustang.
F1 cars have wheel tethers, pretty cool safety feature.

+1 ozzy oi oi oi - sorry I just had to
My Townshend turntable isolation platform will be delivered tomorrow. John is fantastic to work with. For those who might worry about the overseas wait...don’t. I ordered it less than a week ago and it is here.
Last I heard Sound Advice in Long Beach, California is Townshend Audio's U.S.A. distributor (as well as that of EAR-Yoshino and Helius Designs, both, like Townshend, UK companies), but that was a few years ago.

Finding Sound Advice's Dan Meinwald to pretty pretty useless, I contacted John directly. All my Seismic Pods have come from John (his Townshend Audio relative Mary does the product packing and shipping), and as everyone else has said, he is fantastic to buy from. 
OMG Rick and F1 cars are only 200 mph, the speed of sound is 761 mph, krikey! you're right they should totally be tethered!
I am the biggest skeptic when it comes to tweaks.  I own the Podiums for my second story speakers on a suspended wood subfloor.  Tried spikes, no spikes stone with spikes and other isolation techniques.  The Townshend podiums worked the best for me.  I do think it's an essential component for this type of application.  Not sure what the impact would be on a solid concrete floor.  Just for another twist, I also enjoy the Synergistic Research HFT's in various combinations.  However, I have been a critic of their fuses since in my system they blow at the rated amps.  As always your experience may differ.
I had the same experience. Following @millercarbon’s advice a few weeks ago, I got some Townshend podiums under my Tannoy Kensingtons. Wow. The soundstage became very crisp, tight bass and much better clarity of the sound. Really good investment.  Thanks millercarbon!  Now I don’t believe any of the things they say about you🤣
I Took Audio Technica AT 616 to a friends who was contemplating the use of Townsend Plinths under his Floor Standing Speakers.

The affect on the presenttion was quite noticeable and as said the Bass had become tighter and the notes more defined.

My friend then went on to trial Townsend Sleds and now has a Plinth for the Speakers.

I have taken my ESL Speakers out of use and have been using Floor Standing Speakers for approx' 6 Months.

I have worked through permutations of Isolation, Starting with Spikes only and through to Two Teirs of Sub Plinth, trying out different materials for a Teir.
The AT 616 were introduced at teh stage of using a Sub Plinth and through the comparisons undertaken have proved their value and have a taken up a permanent place upun a Two Teir Sub Plinth assembly.

The last trial in my mind that can be done is a upward facing spike between speaker and AT 616. 
No rush for this one to be carried out.

The Top of the Speakers each have Metal Weights rested on them with 1/8" Cork Pads as Separaters.
The Weights were increased in increments upto 12lb (6Kg).
The initial addition of a  5lb Weight and the movement of it around the Top of the Speaker found a position that added a noticeable 'if small' improvement to the detailing.
Adding weight when the seating position for the weight was discovered, was perceived as underpining the improvement to the detail retrievel that was already noticed.
I have a personnal listening room so aesthetics are not too important,
weights added to the Top of Cabinet are in my view worthwhile as a invesigation.
Whether it is as ubiquiitous at producing the good impressions suspension footers can make will require further feedback from other Speaker Owners to confirm. 
Thanks all for the great feedback. It seems I’m better off trying some damped spike bottoms, was looking into these as they are nearby and fairly priced:
Any thoughts? I was thinking to use the same under my turntable, it sits on 3 spikes as well, with small washer like metal rings underneath.
Any thoughts? I was thinking to use the same under my turntable, it sits on 3 spikes as well, with small washer like metal rings underneath.

For under a turntable? Anything around that price I would go for Nobsound, they will be way better than those cork-rubber things. And for a lot less. Nobsound are about $30/set of 4, the cork is 4X the price and I bet not even as good. Get both and compare. Pods are in another world performance-wise, but also cost-wise, so try Nobsound first.

I used Nobsound under mine. Was using BDR before that and springs were a big improvement. So seriously doubt there are any cones or spikes you can put your turntable on that will be as good as a spring. At least until you get up into Townshend territory. Nobsound are on Amazon and the same thing is sold under different names, slightly different appearance, but the same springs. Have seen versions priced as low as $25/set of 4.
The problem is your floor resonates which is what muddies the bass. Back when I was installing systems (a long time ago) we hung speakers from the ceiling on chains or cables. I really do not think that work particularly well. Instead of muddy bass we got no bass. Things like bass drum impacts disappeared. The real solution is a sturdier floor which is only possible if the floor is open below. I have not heard Townsend products in use but it seems you are happy with the results which is all that counts. Do kick drums come through correctly? 
Yes the kick drum is punchier, I can feel / sense the strike of the petal.  Toms too.  Upright and electric bass also much more "live".  Yes I have bouncy suspended floors.  Before I got the Nob Sound springs under my turntable, I would need to sneak up on it to not activate the suspension.  
@rixthetrick yes exactly, filled with quartz sand.
@millercarbon thanks, will check them
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