High Infidelity
I’m unapologetically old school. I own rather than lease my car and not because I think it drives better that way. I own my music and not because I think it sounds better than streaming. I’m puzzled as to why it’s cheaper to buy a CD, have it shipped home and rip it rather than downloading it from a popular digital audio store. I’m disappointed that artists who bypass the CD process seem to only offer MP3 downloads. But I digress…
I recently purchased music for download on Qobuz. The website identified the download as CD quality 16 bits, 44.1 kHz. The downloaded files turned out to have varying bitrates between 756 & 938 Kbps rather than 1,411 Kbps. I contacted Qobuz through their help messaging. They thanked me for bringing this to their attention and stated they would request a corrected copy from the record label. They unfortunately could not give me a timeframe as this would be up to the record label.
I requested a refund on the basis that I purchased CD quality tracks for immediate download per their website description and the prospect of potentially getting them at an undermined time in the future was not acceptable. I was told that Qobuz does not provide any refunds on purchased music in any circumstance. There are no exceptions to this rule. I asked to speak to a supervisor but my request was denied.
I’d like to get feedback on:
- whether others have encountered downloads that weren’t as advertised or if this was truly an exception
- what you think of their refund policy
- any possible recourse
Thanks
The OP @rpmpam already stated that he download AIFF files - those are full lossless 16/44.1 resolution. He got what he paid for and hopefully understands that now. This thread should really be closed to prevent perpetuating this claim against Qobuz. |
I find streaming to be very convenient. I still have a turntable (SYSTEMDEK IIX) and CD player (Naim CDi) for the rare occasion when I listen to physical media (maybe five percent of the time). The comment regarding people being too lazy to get up and change their CD put me in mind of the Proceed CD library 100 CD player of the 1990’s. |
As the OP pointed out, the “renting music” indefinitely just sticks in my craw. They simply took a page from software companies where you used to buy/own a program but now you have to license it annually. It sucks! I want to OWN my music and have it at my fingertips, not exist in the ether where I have to pay a monthly fee to access it. Besides, I could conceive of a future where certain old songs become “problematic” for some reason and simply disappear - or, like Disney, someone decides to change the lyrics of a song. I want to own physical media. Buy it once and own it forever. Besides, it sounds better! The few discs I own in Dolby ATMOS (Pink Floyd, Rush & Beatles) smoke the compressed versions I hear when I stream Amazon music. For those that love the streaming model and don’t care about physical media’s demise, picture the next step being you have to pay a monthly license fee for your actual audio gear! Think like when you had to rent the cable box. You get a discounted piece of electronics (DAC, steamer, etc) but have to pay a monthly fee to keep it active. Does that sound good to you too? It will cost you every month but don’t worry, they will provide firmware updates constantly so you feel like your actually getting something in return for your paid subscription that will never end… |
Anyone on this site complaining about the cost of purchasing music should stop right now. When you're willing to spend $10k+ to stream free content you can't really comment on the cost of music when you're not willing to help support the artists that make the music you enjoy. I'm not sure how a download service would refund a digital download because it's not at the preferred bitrate. I used to have an account with E-music back before streaming services existed. Bought quite a bit over the many years knowing full-well I was getting mp3s up to 320kbps but not CD quality. As for continuing to purchase digital downloads, I still do but of select artists whose music is out of print or the CD/vinyl format is too expensive. There is a Japanese ambient artist I like whose music is now mostly available via high-res download. On occasion a vinyl copy might pop up for lots of $. If I buy CD or vinyl from the Bleep website I get a complimentary FLAC copy that I download onto my home server, both as a backup but also as a listening convenience factory when I queue up multiple albums to listen to in a session. I also find that not every streaming service has what I want or is going to keep complete cataloga or specific versions of an album available on their service. I see songs and albums disappear on Spotify all the time. At the end of the day, chalk your purchase up to the price of listening to your favorite artists. Think of your lower res copy like a vinyl copy that someone on discogs over-rated as M/NM instead of the VG it really is. |
Just a note on Qobuz when you have favorite tunes or anlbums and put them in your library. Occasionally, you will click on them and you get an error message… something like no longer available. But, frequently that only means the URL has changed. The cut is still available… but the adress has changed (your streamer stores the address). You only need to look it up and store it in your library again. |
I buy one download each week, sometimes more if there is a sale. Like, I took advantage of Fone’s 40th anniversary sale. 40% off entire catalog in pure DSD. Picked up 20 titles…I echo @cleeds sentiment. there is never been a better time to be an audiophile. BTW, steer clear of HDTracks. Majority of their files are upsampled which sounds like a garbage. |
Wow, it's a tough crowd here. I still buy music. I bought the new Stones LP because I have all of their other studio LPs. I'm a fan. I think the LP sounds better than the download (which I also bought) and better than the stream that's included with my Qobuz subscription. Maybe it's all in my head. I'm a big fan of a young Australian band called the Seven Ups. I buy their stuff on Bandcamp as a show of support, and I've bought a few of their LPs, too. Similarly, when I hear local live music, I'll almost always buy the artist's CDs if they're offered. I have a few friends that are working musicians. I buy their CDs when they're available. I stream. I play downloads and LPs. I still have cassette and reel decks, too. There's never been a better time to be an audiophile. |
I do some streaming but never buy downloads, but mostly listen to CD's and vinyl, especially vinyl as of the last few years. Album artwork I can see on a 12x12 'canvas', lyrics and credits I can read, and I generally prefer the sound - I've got an excellent vinyl playback system - but it's the music that counts the most for me, not numbers. |
@rpmpam I've rarely purchased downloadable media. And if I do, it's purely for the enjoyment of the music in a mostly casual setting and not for critical listening. For instance I recently purchased the Stones' Hackneyed Diamonds which I listened to in the car this weekend. For me personally, I rather doubt I'll sit in my darkened living room with a nice glass of wine and listen to it but will certainly listen casually. And for those who think that LPs are the fool proof way to purchase high fidelity, remember that there are manufacturers out there who are simply using digital tapes to make their pressings. I doubt if there are many, if any, who could tell at what bit rate those tapes were made. Please do not take this as a negative opinion on the practice of buying downloads! We should do what makes us happy in this avocation of ours. Enjoy the music. Happy listening. |
Well if my two kids (33 and 35) are indicative of what's trending...they don't buy a thing and they are both movie fans bigtime. Couple clicks on the remote and they rent virtually whatever they want for the evening. They have no media at all, all of that stuff (discs) is here. So, I have a ridiculous collection of movies/CDs, many of the movies are blu-ray 4K. When asked what do I do with stuff they both say "throw it out"! I don't have enough time left (or the inclination) to try to sift through it all. Although I do enjoy the James Bond boxed set as well as the Sopranos boxed set. Regards, barts
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One other problem is that so many supposedly high resolution sources are not that at all--they have been up-sampled to fake high resolution. In doing reviews of recordings High Fi News and Record Review would do an analysis to determine if the original source was high-resolution or merely up-sampled lower resolution stuff (I don't know if they still do this because I have not read them in a while). |
For what it’s worth, I have both Tidal and Qobuz but Tidal seems to have more of the music I like. Tidal is also moving away from MQA and replacing them with Flac files. Streaming is definitely future. I’ve not purchased media or downloaded a file in quite a while now and don’t really miss it. @rpmpam I would probably chalk it up to lessons learned and let it go, but I certainly understand the frustration of not getting what you paid for and having no recourse for a refund. |
@baylinor Great minds.
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+ another one for @ghdprentice Well put. If the internet goes down, then CD’s get played otherwise it’s Qoboz. |
I have thousands of vinyl and hundreds of CDs. Also been streaming for a couple years. However I have never ever purchased downloaded music and never will. Seems to make absolutely no sense to me. Once in a great while an album on Qobuz I placed in my favorites is no longer available. If I really can't live without it, I either buy the vinyl or CD. It's that simple. Streaming has become the norm in my house of stereo. Like ghdprentice says, done right it sounds as good as vinyl or CDs. Overall nothing beats it imo.
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@ghdprentice +1 For Quobuz it would be far too complicated to allow for refunds. I suppose, they are not in the position to check every record they 'import'. Me, I would consider the annoyance you encountered as a write-off. I guess (and hope for you) that your are not talking about more than a couple of dollars. With Quobuz, one can create hundreds of 'own' playlists'. Feels a bit like owning the music, although it's still streaming. |
Qobuz sounds a little better to me and that seems to be the case with most folks i have bought some hi res downloads and can't tell the difference from streaming, so not much point to owning for me. I still prefer the sound of vinyl- nothing like it- but the convenience factor of streaming usually wins out |
There was purchasing physical media… ~pre-2005 (around there), then there was ripping, then purchasing downloads. The world moves on… horse and buggy to automobiles. I’m not a young whisper snapper… I’m 71. The age of buying media is over. Qobuz knows it to. They’re not going to waste a lot of time on a download… which is a legacy product. Just offered for a few folks into nostalgia that will pay a huge amount of money to do it. Vinyl was the media for 100 years, CDs for 35 years and downloads for 5 years. Streaming is overwhelming all physical media markets and is the future. Just stream. It just makes no sense to buy downloads at this point. A lot of money for little value. At least vinyl has the tradition of pulling one out… cleaning it, putting it on the turntable. Time to let go. |
I to do not understand why everyone dives to Qobuz... I'm happy with Tidal, but mostly for streaming new released material so I know what to hunt for in terms of CDs or records... Some of the new stuff never gets released on CD/record so I have to keep streaming and have that luxury, but as far as going for quality download from any streaming service, I waste absolutely no time. |
I know nothing of Qobuz so I can’t address the download issue But yes i understand their reasoning on the "no refund" (right or wrong). If they would offer refunds, they’d be handling calls from people who would try to take advantage of that. But in your situation one would think a refund would be appropiate As far as recourse, to me the first thing you need to ask yourself is how much frustration and aggravation you’re willing to put yourself through, to get for what I assume would be a small amount of money returned. There are limits to pursuing something for the principle of it, but only you can decide what that limit is. |
