Seriously? Why Buy ARC Ref 6SE? seems Benchmark LA4 is a better choice.

I think many have a certain ideal when it comes to hearing/ listening.
Neutral or not, it's just the way it is. 

@aewarren You must have been a good hockey player with those deflection skills. Whatever, man audiophile talk is not that interesting to me. 

Anyone read the Jason Serinus review of the ARC preamp in Stereophile?  The Benchmark got a brief comparative listen and, err, didn't come off too well.

(Full disclosure: of Stereophile's reviewers, JS gets on my nerves a great deal more than anyone else.)

@yyetc In your barn a dead horse is still not safe from a beating. How could I, or anyone else, prefer one audio product over another if we had not auditioned them both? "For my system and tastes, I prefer the ARC." Again, if YOU prefer something else, then that's what YOU should buy. I take magazine reviews with a grain of salt and prefer to trust my own ears, after all the reviewers have their own tastes and their own rooms. Enjoy. 

@aewarren Yes we were talking about the OP's choice in preamp, not yours. I never asked what preamp you use or really care. I am curious as to how you can make a judgment on the LA4. Have you heard it? 

Next month The Absolute Sound will do a review of the LA4 + DAC3B. You know a mag that speaks to sophisticated audiophiles. You may find it interesting. I already know what it will say.

@yyzsantaabarbara
I thought we were talking about the Op's choice in preamps not mine. I already have a preamp that I am more than happy with. If you find the Benchmark to your liking, then go for it. For my system and my tastes, I prefer the ARC. For anyone who finds one equal to the other, I envy you because you can be satisfied while spending less money. 

@aewarren 

If you seriously think the Benchmark preamp is "the better choice", then that's what you should buy. I envy your lack of discrimination.

A statement like that makes me think that you have never heard the LA4. I have heard some very expensive ARC gear,  I guess that must mean it was some of their better gear. 

Easy question in this discussion,  do want you preamp to add sound or no sound? That is the "discrimination" decision.

I had the ref 6. It was a beauty. I can't imagine how good the 6SE would be.

If you seriously think the Benchmark preamp is "the better choice", then that's what you should buy. I envy your lack of discrimination.

Odd that there is limited info available about internal design flow of a preamp.  Maybe a diagram showing signal flow.

this would be of interest to many. or maybe not.
Maybe if you did some research you could figure out the signal flow, or maybe not.

I believe audiophiles should purchase whatever preamplifier, if any, sounds best to them in their system, and within their budget. We all value different musical attributes and presentations...fortunately there is an abundance of choices in audio gear. I’ve been using VAC preamplifiers since 2000 when I simply fell in love with their musical virtues no matter what amplifier I use.
I’m sure I could live with other fine preamplifiers at a lesser price. However, listening to a VAC preamplifier is my musical cup of tea. Drink up and enjoy!

Odd that there is limited info available about internal design flow of a preamp.  Maybe a diagram showing signal flow.

this would be of interest to many. or maybe not.

Pete ,  if you did not have to buy any of the products 
what one would you take home  

You beat me to it.
It's kenjit, reincarnated.

I’m pretty sure that the OP emergeingsoul is actually Kenjit! He’s so universally ignored that he started another account to suck more unwitting victims in.

troll post

Sometimes you just need to chuckle. The original question was posed by someone who posits “And I don’t like listening to music very much“ ?  No further comment needed.  
Yyzsantabarbara hit the nail on the head.  The fun in any hobby is to increase your level of appreciation for the object of your enthusiasm.
That can be accomplished with music reproduction whether you are building a $5K or $50K system.  Not so true with cars.  Believe me, I know.

Great article about preamp.

anybody ever see a more detailed overview of internal components and how all are connected together?

Here is what I think is a very good discussion about the importance of preamps. In many cases, they can make the single biggest differences of any component. They are not just "pass through" devices. In my experience they are truly interactive in nature and therefore very difficult to get right. They interact with interconnects, media sources, and the RF and other noise sources and do so at various voltage levels. The design of a good preamp is a great combination of science and art. Enjoy what you will...
Check this out- https://www.stereophile.com/content/rotel-michi-p5-preamplifier

Absolutely nailed it @mahler123

Funny, I thought money was only in issue when two items performed identically in YOUR ROOM.

I would say this is a non-discussion.  Take both home, listen, and buy the one that sounds the best IN YOUR ROOM and that you can afford.

End of discussion.

Come on man. If you do not listen to music what's the point?

" And I don’t like listening to music very much. "

That says it all folks, time to move on from any of the OPs posts on any thread topic

Paul @ PS Audio has a great explanation of why pre-amps are important, but also why it costs so much to create a pre-amp that does not add or subtract ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isQ48qn1CK8

In case, audiogon removes the link, you can go to youtube and search for the title 'Does anyone need a preamp?' by PS Audio.

“waiting to hear something of value about high end preamps”

In order to hear (as in listening with your ears) something of value, you have to actually listen to equipment and not read/troll message boards.

If you can’t hear the “diffs” then just buy whatever and move along.

And I don’t like listening to music very much.

waiting to hear something of value about high end preamps.  Very thin.

lots of marketing hype 

I just can’t wait to see what OP ends up with.....just read up his threads on digital servers, especially this one 😂

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/streamers-servers-players-woefully-overpriced

Do you see a pattern? What’s next, speakers or amp? 

So the question OP you should ask yourself is why trouble yourself with your questions about high end preamps when you apparently have no regard for them and therefore in making the purchase

Gee, I never heard that before...

Big diff between Sony ps3 and better boxes for creating sound..

all about diminishing returns as audio gear gets higher, which trails off as human hearing declines when we get older.

sounds from high equip may be great, but our ability to hear can’t resolve a lot of these great sounds

many of us, older beyond 35, have hearing loss to a certain degree

These trolls seem to think that if they can play it on their Sony PS3, then, that's good enough and anything better is confirmation bias, when it's the other way around.

For them, audio devices are just appliances and nothing more, which begs the question already asked, what are they doing here?

All the best,
Nonoise

And after all the prior discussion the troll emerges 

"emergingsoul OP... Maybe take a poll.  Most will say they can’t hear diffs.  High end dealer conveyed that most can’t hear diffs, including reviewers paid to write fancy prose..."

Maybe take a poll.  Most will say they can’t hear diffs.  High end dealer conveyed that most can’t hear diffs

Good for them and you! Now maybe you can find something better to do with your (and our) time?

Ahhhh, thoughts from true marketeer.  Maybe take a poll.  Most will say they can’t hear diffs.  High end dealer conveyed that most can’t hear diffs, including reviewers paid to write fancy prose.

+1 mahler123

 the truth is that there is no discernable sonic difference between any of today’s solid state gear (amps, preamps, CD/DVD players/transports, DACs) - regardless of what the golden ear audio gurus claim!

This exemplifies the reason for most audio arguments. People believe that their own experience is a universal truth and feel they have to convince everyone else of that.

Everyone hears differently and has different interest in hearing and ability to hear differences between gear. We can all share our experience, as that, and learn from others sharing their experience. When we decide that what we hear is what everyone else must hear or they’re lying or being duped is when tempers flare and people get defensive or lash out.

People who can’t hear the difference between different amps and preamps are lucky in a way. Their audio journey is much easier and cheaper.

People who can hear differences are going to have to put more time and energy into putting their system together and it’s going to cost more, but they may get enjoyment out of the journey and may end up with more satisfying (to them) sound.

I will just suggest that if all gear sounds the same to you, you’re probably wasting your time on this forum.

@clearthinker Some people need a preamp because they (like me) think the volume control on a DACs is not as good direct to amp. Yes, I have done that for years. There are also people with sources that do not have a volume control, how do you play them?

@kren0006 I was going to get the Yamaha NS5000 but then I saw a local ad for a speaker that I liked better, the Thiel CS3.7. It also has less bass so it works better in my room.

I am still looking at the NS5000 or KEF Blade2 for my larger room downstairs. Though I do so much listening in the home office room that I am wondering about setting up a another system.

Another of the endless discussions that combines 2 eternal and un resolvable issues
First issue-perceived value.  As in why do two pieces of gear that perform the same function vary so widely in price?
Second issue-do preamps do anything? And is it worth paying for what they may do?

My cut to the chase answer—there is enough perception amongst a critical mass of listeners to sustain an industry that caters to offering these differences to suit various tastes amongst consumers.  There are also enough  consumers that perceive these differences, and are interested enough in them, to sustain multiple internet sites to discuss these differences.
  Some people claim that they cannot hear the difference that a preamp makes, or that they cannot tell the difference between 2 pieces of gear.  If that is the case, those people are to be pitied, because they are not able to have the enjoyment that the rest of us do in relishing these differences.  Those individuals are better served getting product reviews from a source such as Consumer Reports.  When they constantly hector others by in effect saying, since I cannot perceive a difference, no such difference exists and the rest of you are deluded,
then they are irritating.
  As others have said, no amount of words can change this, because one has to be able to hear the difference.  And no wiser advice than “so don’t buy it” can be offered to the non-believer

Talk never made a component sound better.   

My streamer/DAC (a Matrix Element X) has volume control and input selection. I don't use a dedicated preamp between it and my power amp (a Benchmark AHB2).  So I'm reading this thread from that perspective.  If a good preamp is a "neutral pass thru", why bother to add one at all?

YY which speakers??

Is it a 'neutral pass thru' of the signal or not.
This is the first question.  It needs answering before all the others.
Because if it is, then we don't need pre-amps.
Or all the discussion about them.

This is such a rubbish troll post... Ranty OP and responses 

You guys are too much, sometimes this forum reads like outtakes from Grumpy Old Men. 

@emergingsoul You sound like someone that needs to have a listen to the Luxman c900u preamp and m900u amp stack. Only tubey sound I loved and it is SS, great stuff. I would not mind putting the HPA4 or LA4 with the Luxman m900u amp but I will try a CODA #8 first for 1/3 the cost. I actually was emailing CODA today about getting a customized version of the #8, which I will do.

A side note about cars, I had BMW M3 (E46) for 19 years (only owner). I sold it a few weeks ago and bought some speakers with the proceeds. I advertised it on Facebook and had over 150 offers to buy in 1 hour, I was shocked. I had a guy come to my door 10 minutes after the ad was placed and gave me cash on the spot. He had seem my car on the driveway once and was able to figure out that it was my ad. I did not put my address on the ad. It really showed me the power of Facebook.

It’s a quandary. And leaning more toward tubes seems to offer more musical fun, especially vocals.  I can’t leave my home to go visit listening rooms due to an injury so I am learning what I can.  Although not sure if this would help.  
Buying an Audi or Mercedes clearly has considerable value. A recent Volkswagen may also be just as good, but it’s a Volkswagen.  A Volvo is a lot safer but doesn’t look as nice. I buy used cars, ie. audis, they perform quite well longer term.

@emergingsoul I don't buy the ego driven thing as something that applies to most folks. I think people buy what they like or need for their system. If the LA4 cost $20K I would have to do more demoing and likely still got it. However, at $2.5K it was simple buy decision and moved on to the next component I needed. I think it plays in the $20K crowd.