What are you using as a streamer? Constructive feedback please.

i went to roon at last year end

so i have an i7 roon core doing the processing (from @elberoth)

then three branches out

-- optical conversion at switch to optical rendu as roon endpoint driving usb out into dacs downstream

-- uptone etherregen clean (b) side to ifi zenstream as roon endpoint using its cleaned spdif rca out to dacs downstream

-- wifi to node 2i as endpoint, then rca spdif out to dac (as older, former setup as a reference)

For what it's worth, I have the ever popular Bluesound Node 2i and the integration with Tidal has been terrible. Accessing Tidal from within the Bluesound app takes forever and frequently doesn't work (I have to search multiple times before any songs come up). However, just found out that I can use the Tidal app and connect through that to the Bluesound which works much better. 

As for sound quality, I've heard that USB is the way to go (see: 

However, USB output is only available on the most recent Bluesound Node (2022 model). !

I pulled the trigger and made the jump from a Bluesound Node to an Aurender N10.  I can validate the improvement was a game changer, as you would expect, given the considerable difference in price.   

I had AURALiC Aries G1 and switched to Lumin and to my ears it is more musical. Upgrading the streamer to something like Lumin U1 Mini should be a nice step up. It will give you the flexibility to try eith AESnor USB interface on your DAC. 
Since you’re using Roon you won’t have to deal with the horrendous Lumin app. 
Streamers do make a difference.
Don’t forget USB, Ethernet and digital will make a difference and improve the sound even further.  

3 picoreplayers using RPi4. 2 with USB amd one with Hifiberry hat outputting coax. Each has a Raspberry Pi 7" touchscreen. Ordered a pi2aes to get I2S. Everything works flawlessly except VU Meter problem I'm having with USB. It's 0s and 1s for streaming. After that it's about DACs and AMPS which make more of a difference. Using Gustard X26 Pro, Cambridge Audio 200m and Denon AVP as DACs.

I am WIFI streaming Apple music HI RES from iPad USB to Marantz HD DAC1. Sounds fantastic to my ears. I have also thought of a separate streamer but nothing on the market currently can play Apple music. I've subscribed to Tidal and Qobuz in the past but prefer Apple music. Good luck in your journey!

In process of changing from SOTM sms200 neo to Sonore Opticalrendu. My next server will have optical out, goal is to have all optical post modem.

Bridge II streamer in PS Audio DSD DAC. Can't beat $800, card slides right in, then a few screws, sounds grand, no additional cables. What would that have been cost as a standalone + cables, and take up more room on a stand in a NYC apartment. I'm happy. Neal

Here’s what I am using and couldn’t be happier:

1) Mac Mini M1. Sole purpose, running Roon/Tidal/USB HD & HQ Player. I am upsampling everything local and on Tidal to DSD512/ASDM7/poly-sinc-xtrr-mp-2s via HQPlayer

2) Sonore UtraDigital feeds Kitsune Singxer SU-2 via I2s to modified LKS DAC MH-DA004

Costs:

Mac Mini M1 8GB: $699

Sonore Ultra-Digital: $395

Kitsune SU-2 : $789

HQPlayer License : $246

Total: $2146

Why not Roon nucleus, works great. 

I recently purchased a Rose HIFI RS250 (Streamer/DAC/Pre Amp) and use only the streamer function to output via USB to a Directstream DAC.  I find the sound more involving than using the Directstream DAC’s Bridge II card.

I have a Denon DNP720ae in my listening room and a Denon mini system in my home office.  Both are on Ethernet and when I stream it is typically Apple Music from a Windows PC.  Like you, I enjoy vinyl.

@jerryg123   Great! Thank you, and Happy New Year!

@rockrider I am loving it. Using the AES from Signal Cable. The unit is sensitive to cabling and with the Digital Coax did not have the captaincy for 194’ would only play 96. 

@jerryg123

My new Bel Canto E.One Stream came in while I was traveling this week will set it up tomorrow and see how it works with all my other BC gear.

Wondering how things are going with your new Streamer? Also what digital cable you are using to the DAC (Signal Cable? Coax of AES?)

Hope you are enjoying it!

I’m a Innuos Zenith MK3 4TB with Phoenix USB Reclocker (8-10k). I really do like it, but I way over bought considering the rest of my system.

If you’re a vinyl guy you can get buy and enjoy yourself with a lot less.

But price is always a big part of the equation.

I’d recommend the Zen MK3 with a SoTM Tx-usbultra special edition.

New its 4k, but can easily find good pricing and get it for under 3k for both I’m sure.

Basically 90% the the quality and 25% the price.

I tried the SoTM and liked it, but Innuos Phoenix did pull slightly ahead and just wanted all Innuos stuff.

Read over your Integrated and looks good excellent! Very nice set-up.

davehg

Do you what good sound or organized music listen to the Aurender

I tried a number of streamers before committing to a Lumin T2. The Bel Estream was a disappointment, as was the a BlueSound. I did keep a Bluesound Powernode to power the inwalls in my dining room and kitchen, but for critical listening it was not great. Auralic was detailed but dry, the Linn the same. I did not try Aurender as it failed to support Roon. Used a Lumin D2 for a year and it was decent but the T2 was stellar. 

Computer Audio Design CAT feeding an Aesthetix Romulus Eclipse

Gigafoil with Keces LPS on the Ethernet just prior to the CAT

CAD GC1 ground control on the CAT

Upgraded from a Logitech transporter feeding an Arye Codex

i doubt the bits changed but the sound sure did. I used to think it was only the bits that mattered but listening changed my mind 

I have a Roon Nucleus powered by Mojo Audio Illuminati power supply. Very happy with it. I stream via Tidal and Qobuz. 

I have 2 Raspberry Pi3 based music streamers in my home. One is a bare-bones build with just the RP3 board, in an acrylic case with an cheap switching power supply. This one is USB output only. The other one is the same, but has a HiFiBerry Dac+ Pro DAC hat installed, plus an upgraded iFi power supply. The DAC+ Pro attaches directly to the top of the RP3 board via a I2S bus, so no cable needed. Both run Volumio OS.

I've been very happy with both streamers since switching from Moode OS to Volumio. Standard Volumio OS is free to download. They have 2 tiers of premium subscriptions that add additional functionality. Both tiers are very inexpensive - $50-$100/year. I do not currently have either premium tier. I just use the free version.

I have my two streamers connected to my primary audio system and my office system. I control both of them via an Volumio using an internet browser on either my laptop or my phone. Easy Peasy...

Anyone wanting to dip their toe into streaming can build a RP streamer for under $100 and give it a try.

+1 on the Node 2i and Amazon HD. Fits my budget and am not wanting for more. My local audio store used Node on all their demo systems. Besides, I'm 64 and don't think I could hear any subtle differences in more expensive gear. Most importantly, I'm enjoying the music and finding new artists.

I have a Auralic G2 playing through a PS audio perfect wave DAC, a esoteric N 05 and a Ayon S10 Signature.   The Ayon is far and away the best

I bought ifi Zen Stream based on reviews (sale$360). I use USB from the Stream to a Topping D70S DAC, and then balanced to my Mac MA5300. SQ is excellent. Do not care for the app.

If you are going to use Roon and is somewhat used to computers you can buy an Intel NUC and install Roon Rock. I have not tried it buy a lot of people says it sounds great. If you are not gonna use Roon then a Windows computer with some remote access app might work great. This should be cheaper that a special streamer. 

Here Darko talks about Roon Rock (from 5:42).
 

@scthom - sorry, been out of touch for a couple of days.  To your question on the M3 vs the AM Tubadour III SE - both are great DACs.   Overall neutral presentation and musical overall, which is to say nothing in their presentation is prominent.  A coherent presentation of the music by both DACs.  Good meat on the bones - not a thin presentation or overly clinical like some DACs.  Highly resolving, good soundstage. The Bricasti has a touch faster/harder attack than the AM. Both could be considered endgame DACs by many.  I've principally used the M3 via the internal network card, and I don't really recall its sound via other inputs.  I've principally used the AM via the USB input (recommended by Vlad along with the I2S).  I use my Auralic G2 as the source for the AM.  As a DAC on its own, the AM is the better deal, and if you principally use single-ended, I would go with the AM.  The Bricasti has balanced outputs and also a decent analog volume control.  Of course, when you consider I am using a streamer more expensive than the AM, the prices of the sets of streamer and DAC are more equivalent and slightly favors the Bricasti.  Both are great DACs and I feel no need to upgrade.

@ nymarty

I had been using my MacBook Pro for a number of years.

Used Audirvana via a Halide Bridge USB/SPIDF to my Dac.

Really liked the sound.

Have since upgraded the USB/SPIDF converter, Dac, and swapped my Mac for a Project Stream Box S2 Ultra.

Network card in my Bricasti M3.  Works really well.  

I recently upgraded my streamer from Marantz 30n to Auralic Altair G2.1. I am very happy about it. 

In the late 90s or early 2k's I was one of the first to own a Squeeze Box... One of the product reviews stated "Squeeze box got me laid last night!" Seeing the review was a few weeks old, I ordered it because anyone cool enough to leave that is my dude... So, it was as amazing and more than the hype... Used it for many years...

A year ago tried to find it, wound up building this (With the add on DAC feeding my SCHIIT Modi multibit) and it is absolutely fantastic...

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2017/03/howto-building-and-installing-raspberry.html?m=1

I have about 5K wav's on a SSD that's is accessible instantly, can stream tidal, XM etc and surprisingly really do enjoy the local radio stations from time to time...

I had to go back and remind myself what i read back when i last looked at Pis for audio. I've had other pressing issues int he intervening 9 months.  From my perusal of the (sparse) documentation and the schematic it seems that they have separated the USB onto it sown controller and stopped loading the processor with some of the Ethernet duties- both of which will reduce some of the noise, to the degree that noise is proportional to workload.

As to the supply - if you mean the EXTERNAL supply, that’s where you need to spend some time or money. I built a well regulated and filtered , 3.5A linear supply. It ought to quiet things, and listening tests (vs the $7 standard issue cana-whatever unit) strongly supports this presumption. I can’t speak to mot commercial supplies, having never used them. Well, one exception - i had an ALLO DAC/Pi based bridge/Shanti to evaluate and study for a while and it was an impressive power supply for the price, I thought. It costs something under $200 and if i recall also supports both dirty and clean 5V outputs.

I also isolate the USB of the DAC following (if using the one i half-built) and the commercial ones has built in isolation, quite good from what i could see visually (an SMT transformer)

Very happy with the Ifi Zen Stream. I’ve added it to my Squeezebox system, via the Logitech server software (LMS) into a Denafrips Ares II DAC. 

@maholl50, I also have a Cambridge 851N and a Luxman 505UXII. I am interested in finding out your preferred setup after your rotation exercise.  

Sure all USB sounds alike. If you can’t hear it then it must be true.

While Raspberry Pi 3 Model B+ added Gigabit Ethernet connectivity, throughput on Raspberry Pi 4 is free from the single shared USB 2.0 channel to the SoC

The USB host controller is connected directly to the SoC via a PCIe bus. The Ethernet Controller is built directly in to the SoC.

What are the three laws again and do forums count?

I think you’ll like the e.One Stream, I certainly like mine. The Seek app isn’t bad, but I much prefer the ui of Roon, and the Stream is a Roon endpoint and setup is a breeze. I’m pairing mine with a W4S DAC and couldn’t be happier with the sound. Guessing you’ll have similar results with your DAC 2.7. Good luck and let us know how it works out for you.

Both USB and ethernet are connected to the same internal AMBA bus in the internal pi 4 processor. They didn't separate out things the processor in the pi 3 and 3b did not have integrated ethernet. The new processor has integrated ethernet and only requires an external phy. The old one didn't have ethernet so they use the chip that provided USB and ethernet together. Due to the reduced performance of the original USB I/F from the processor they could only do 300 mbps on the ethernet (3b+), 100mbps(3b). It had absolutely nothing to do with noise but about data transfer bottlenecks. In terms of noise they both use the same power supply which is where most of the noise will come from.

One of the big improvements of the Raspberry PI 4 was to separate the USB bus from the ethernet bus. Why?... Because of the noise of the shared bus.

Yep!  And its a big improvement.

On the 3 you had to build a HAT

A vote for LMS (Logitech Music Server) here. It integrates very well with Qobuz. I've got a collection of FLAC's on my Raspberry PI server also. I have cheap Pi's in two other rooms that feed other systems with good dacs. Interestingly, when listening on my PC, I can't tell the difference between direct Qobuz and playing through the streamer using an excellent dac/headphone amp with either my Beyer DT880 or Monolith Planars. The only downside that I can see is that it's not plug and play......

My new Bel Canto E.One Stream came in while I was traveling this week will set it up tomorrow and see how it works with all my other BC gear.

Thanks for all the feedback.

Roon and Tidal is the core of my streaming. The signature system uses Roonbridge running on a Thinkserver 2016 with Audiophile Optimizer and separated USB card powered by a separate power supply and CA DAC magic Plus.  Just recently bought Bluesound Node 3rd generation, Pangea Power cable, Audioquest evergreen interconnects, Tripplite line conditioner, Project Carbon EVO turntable, NHT Zero, SVS SB-1000 SW, Carver Amp for a 2nd system and could not be any happier as to the performance of the BSN. BSN is hardwired with CAT6 to wall plugs and connected to two switches in the media room which serves the entire house.

Very interesting thread. I learned a couple of new things. Recently I scored a deal on Lumin U1 Mini, and apart from the dumb app (iPhone anyway) and the ethernet-only option, I found it was no real meaningful upgrade from Lindemann Limetree Bridge II. To me, the latter was a huge upgrade from Node 2i, which I won't touch every again. I like German simplicity and manufacturing: so Limetree feeding into the loved-for-a-reason RME ADI2 DAC. This combo is very, very good for the price.

Innous Zen MK3 was my other option, but I think the real sonic difference comes up the chain from an amazing DAC. Among streamers, Limetree Bridge is already great and any incremental upgrades will be marginal. The DAC however can really change what you hear - sound stage, clarity, transparency, etc.

One of the big improvements of the Raspberry PI 4 was to separate the USB bus from the ethernet bus. Why?... Because of the noise of the shared bus. PI 3 was still able to backup your hard drive as a computer bit (a switch) isn’t as prone to noise as an bit converter.

i haven’t tried a PI 4 but requiring a fan because the extra heat it produces made me go a different way.

The PI2AES was a I2s interface that blew away some of the top streamers unfortunately they aren’t being made and probably will incorporate the technology into a much more expensive products.

Here is a post on how to improve the USB signal for sound reproduction and it works for me.

Fidelizer 8.8

Not a robot but I do dream of electric sheep

Roon

NUC w/2 SSDs

Custom LPS

Bridge to isolate and distribute the computing load (bridge = Rpi Ethrernet in USB out)

Custom LPS for that

Isolation on USB

--> DAC; either DAC powers USB or i have yet another very small LPS to power just the clean USB side.

Most people are surprised digital can sound so -- well like nothing at all.

So what's important?

1. The network - wire it, no wifi

2. isolation of noisy computers from DACs.  Isolated interfaces, independent power.  This means not just +5 rails but grounds.

3. Timing at the DAC chip - generally not an issue unless you use SPDIF, which is one big reason i don't, except for TV etc.

The rest is pretty much irrelevant

In a perfect world yes but in reality that’s not true. The voltages that are represented by ones and zeros have residual values that distorts the signal.

Oh poppycock. The stream of bits coming out of my Raspberry Pi’s USB is identical to any streamer mentioned in this thread.  Everything down stream from the streamer makes the difference in SQ.  If what you say is true, you could never restore a computer backup.

@danager, In a perfect world yes but in reality that’s not true. The voltages that are represented by ones and zeros have residual values that distorts the signal.

And what effect exactly does that have? How much distortion? Does that effect USB, Ethernet and SPDIF/I2S, or only one or two of them?

Unless you are having software problems, all streamers will sound alike.
Zeros and ones. .

In a perfect world yes but in reality that’s not true. The voltages that are represented by ones and zeros have residual values that distorts the signal.

Personally I use a fanless I5 PC and the USB out. My DAC manufacture provides a specific USB driver and I use Fidelizer to further reduce OS and component signal interference.

Windows Remote PC allows you to control your software . App from almost any device. Sounds better than the Raspberry PI with the ALLO digiOne.

I’m still not a robot but may be more android than ever.

Hi, all.   I'm a fan of Apple Music.  I like the lossless and high res, the vast collection of music, and the price.  I also use Audirvana from the Mac for my own digital collection.  Haven't tried Tidal or Qobuz or Roon.

So I use a Macbook Pro (or iPad Mini) outputting via USB to a Topping D10S to convert to SPDIF coaxial to an older Peachtree DacIt that (I think) still sounds great.

For me, the next step is upgrading the DAC.  I think the digits going into the DAC are just fine coming out of the Mac or Ipad.  Maybe down the road when my system is more revealing, I'll have to improve it, but I find the DAC to be the most important part in the digital bits chain.  IMHO.

Lumin D1 with SBooster digital output to Denefrips Ares II. Ethernet is hardwired via Bonn N8 switch.

Aurender to MSB DAC. And I don’t miss Roon