When using a power conditioner, why is it advised to run amps directly to the wall?

That is an MOC1500 power control center. 

S**t!  I’ll try again. MPC1500. 

Power conditioners restrict current in some way. I have even tried a couple power conditioners ’just for amps". The degradation in sound quality has been instantly obvious to me.

Now, in a home theater, it may not be as obvious. I find that being distracted by the video makes me far less sensitive to sonic nuance. 

You’ll see this advice from a number of fire departments as well.  Don’t daisy chain power cords/strips and in some cases like space heaters or wall AC units, don’t use an extension at all.

The main reason for that is fire safety.  Lots of cheap extension cords don’t have a fuse at all, and are only good for a few hundred watts so it’s quite possible to overload it and the first you’ll know is the fire caused by melting wire.  You actually can do this safely but ONLY if your multiple extensions have built-in breakers or you are sure the wire gauge is greater than needed for the AC breaker in the panel.  Steps most casual home dwellers never pay attention to.  They need heat near their desk or dinning room table, out comes the $4.95 power cord and a few hours later they are homeless. 

contrary to ghd prentice there are a wide number of power conditioners that don't limit current at  all

these include audience audio magic and Isotek

in fact we demoed  a particular power conditioner with a krell krs mono block 

and there was zero degradation 

to date we have tested synergistic, shunyata, running springs, silver circle,audience audioquest, audio magic,and isotek, ps audio exact power and a few others

in all cases power conditioners elevated the sound of our reference system the differences were how the sound was improved they all differed in the way sound was improved.

Summation all passive conditioners made a greater improvement then direct wall hook up, 

all passives were better then active devices.

dave and troy

Audio intellect NJ

In my experience, I have great results running my complete system through my Puritan PSM156. I use two actually.

Everyone ' power situation is different.

My personal experience with power conditioners.  For years and years, I ran all my amplifiers straight into wall outlets (using upgraded audiophile wall outlets).  I plugging my amps straight into the wall outlets, and not into power conditioners, because it was the prevailing wisdom in the high-end audio/audiophile community, so I just followed suit and went along with the crowd.  But one day while visiting one of my local high-end audio shops (who sold mega-buck caliber audio gear), I was introduced to a non-power restricting power conditioner that actually enhanced the sound by just removing the noise and grunge, while actually not restricting it’s power or current.  I was so impressed by what I heard from that power conditioner, I was inspired to investigate further, so I began experimenting with that power conditioner, the one I heard at the high-end audio shop, and also various other power conditioners that were advertised as non-power restricting.  In the end, and after extensive and exhaustive A/B comparisons, I found that I got better result when plugging my amps into a power conditioner and not directly into the wall outlet.  But it was still critically important for me to choose the right (so-called) non-power restricting power conditioner, as they are not all created equal.  Ultimately, I selected the Audioquest Niagara 3000 as my reference power conditioner, which my power amplifier is plugged directly into one of it’s high-current outlets.  I’m extremely pleased with the Audioquest Niagara 3000 power conditioner which, in the future, I’ll always plug all my amplifiers directly into such a device. Oh yeah, I also made sure I used a very high-end, quality power cable from my upgraded wall outlet, to my power conditioner.  Happy listening.        

Lower power amps can be plugged into power conditioners which may improve their performance but big amps need to go directly into the wall to give them unlimited headroom.

In any case, if in doubt get a demo.

I demo'd many over the years through lending library at Cable Company, didn't find a single one that didn't limit current to some extent, this includes passive and active. This also compared to my own BPT 3.5 Signature witch has a massive Plitron LONO balanced transformer which also does same even when I run it on the amp/bypass circuit.

These comparisons mostly done with 845 SET amps which demand much current. To this day no PC for my 845 or 300B amps, I run my amps alongside 2 REL subs from a single dedicated 20 amp, 10AWG circuit, don't need or want PC here.

For those of you claiming they limit current, did you have a way to actually measure that or was it by what you thought you heard?

I read a review of Moon amplifier where the company recommended plugging directly to the wall and encouraged the reviewer to experiment. 
 

I have tried plugging into the wall and through power distributor (Shunyata). I prefer my amp plugged into the distributor. 
 

Your system has 3x the amps I have though - consider emailing McIntosh and asking there recommendations. 

Thanks for all feedback everyone. The issue seems to have many opinions dependent on many different situations.

 I have had literally everything in my rack plugged into the Mac power center for nearly 16 years plus I just added a big powered sub a few weeks ago. It sounds great and I have had no problems at all. BUT, I think I will take the suggestion above and contact McIntosh to be sure. 

My take on direct into the wall is some conditioners can't pull the amps for transients or they bleed into the digital if not separated in the conditioner. Because my power at least 2x a wk has problems I can't go direct to wall. To divert that problem I use furman 20 i that has capicitors to provide > 60 amp transients the audioquest has the engineered that designed furman then went to audioquest. He has a magic box ie capicitor of sorts in model 50090 and 7000 that do the same.so far i have not noticed a decrease in sound quality. I have some conditioners i plug the hagel h30a or bryston 28b3 and it will go into limp mode and turn the amp off.i have not had that problem with the 2 I mentioned. I should throw the big shunyata in there as well and not had any trouble.enjoy the hunt.

My 2 cents...

Using a power conditioner with amps may sound good, but given how power draw from transients might limit how the amp is able to produce an accurate reproduction of said power draw.

Utilizing a directly wired circuit from the mains would be, in my opinion, the best way to connect your amps. Adding a whole house surge protector would give you peace of mind should a power surge occur. 

@overthemoon , +1. Contacting McIntosh would probably be the best way to get what they consider the best path.

Bob

Had a Furman IT Reference 15i and it flattened the sound with an integrated Amp. Went directly into wall and the sound perked up. Got an AudioQuest Niagara with High Current outlets and suffered no sound degradation. YMMV to be sure given equipment used. Also have a Puritan Audio Laboratories PSM 156 Power Conditioner and think it’s non destructive to transients.

Yes mcintosh customer service is great.i have 2 of the mpc 1500.each one is running the mcintosh 2 kw even though they tell you run each module off 20 amp line . So I'm using 2 20 amp lines to run the 2kw instead of 6 20 amp lines. Even though power is e x I the 120 volt line does not sag and they pull less than the 12 amp certified for mpc 1500 as they have an amp meter. I've seen the meters swing to 2kw on the amps .they have a 8kw transient but I'm sure I have not hit that yet.that might pop the 2 20 amp breakers. So call mcintosh and ask them but I have not had problems with the mpc 1500. It makes sense they have synergy with thier equipment. Yes I like the audioquest niagra 7000.look at upscale audio in california.the owner interviews the engineer and shows the internals.enjoy the search.

IMHO, the myth that amps need to be plugged into a wall plug is just that.  A myth.  Regardless of the current available,  your amp only draws what it needs.  I run a pair of Hegel H30 mono blocks, rated at 1150 watts each.  When in use, they pull about 3 amps.  Even when they need that split second "headroom", any decent conditioner can handle it.  I'm assuming of course,  that people on this site, with good systems, are not buying budget conditioners.  The concept that a conditioner  would deaden the sound of an amp, that is only using a few amps for the majority of the time, is simply counter intuitive.  But this is only MHO.  If plugging direct to the wall floats your boat, go for it.  Cheers.

Do you think today’s higher quality power conditioners manufactures are going to build a product that is going to suppress high current power?  Why suppress sales? Engineers can work the problem out. That’s why they are on the payroll.

Simaudio recommended I plug my Moon amp directly into the wall. 

ChatGPT had a slightly different recommendation based upon the quality of your power. : 

Try both and trust your ears — but here’s the practical guidance:

• If your power is stable and clean: Plug the Moon 330A directly into the wall, preferably into a high-quality outlet (hospital-grade or audiophile-grade).
• If your power is noisy or voltage varies: Use the Furman P-2400 AR. It’s one of the few conditioners designed not to choke amps.

Just my .02....

Some things to consider; First. If you plug into the wall outlet, you are plugging into a shared circuit.  It was not designed to be a "clean" circuit for audio.  It just meets the basic needs of your everyday house.  Lamps, Coffeemaker etc.

Second, the Amp customer service guy is solving your problem in the easiest way possible.  They are thinking you probably have a cheap component in your system and the simplest solution is to just by-pass that component.

Lastly.  No one here mentioned "Protection".  When you buy a conditioner, it also acts as a surge protector.  It is a dual use machine.  Without any kind of protection, you can sacrifice your equipment to the junk heap. 

I just put together my new system.  $25k.  I got a Furman Elite and followed their advice and had a dedicated 20a line installed.  This might seem excessive to some people but the $150 they charged to install the line and the $850 I paid Crutchfield for the Furman seemed like a bargain compared to the cost of the amps.  The NAD C298 amps I use sound fantastic and they are run through the Furman.

And...I don't lose any sleep worrying about what a lightening surge will do to my system.  Don't be swayed by internet myths. 

Of course a cheap component might affect your sound quality. It's the same old "you get what you pay for".  Think about it; if conditioners REALLY did what these people claim, how long do you think they would be on the market?

I guess I am lucky to live in a location where power noise issues do not seem to be noticeable, at least in my system.  I do understand how power issues may be more noticeable to folks who live in multi-family condominiums or apartments with shared power, and suspect the effect of conditioners might be more noticeable in some of those situations.

In my system, dedicated 20A circuits, 10 awg Romex in the wall, good outlets, shielded power cords of sufficient gauge using noise cancelling geometries and good connectors, and components with well-designed power supplies seem to be sufficient to keep power line noise below what I can perceive. I do power my front-end digital gear from an Isoclean 60A3 II that is mainly used to provide multiple outlets rather than for any conditioning. 

In the case of my amplifiers, those are plugged directly into the wall and have no on-board power switches or in-line power fuses.  However, in the wall, I have wired two thermal magnetic switches (one per amp) that are exactly as used by the amplifier manufacturer in their most current amplifier designs.  Those serve as the on/off power switches and protection for the amplifiers, since they do not have on-board switches or fuses.  The power cord length to the amplifiers is 1 meter and I have tried shielded and unshielded power cords with no perceivable difference.

.

I bought a PS Audio P15 last year, after using Furman Elite and a Puritan PSM156,  and plugged everything into it. It has improved my system and I am happy with it. I purposely plugged my amp into it for a couple months, and then switched it to the wall, a noticeable and positive difference. Why, I do not know, but that is the case, probably current limiting, though the specs on the P15 say that should not be the case.

@cueball9

Thanks for finally mentioning protection in the event of a power surge!  I wondered when it would come up. The power in my area is fairly unreliable and goes completely out several times a year minimum. It’s so bad that I installed a whole house generator last fall. I’m concerned about frying my system as a result. 
 

I am sold on the idea of installing dedicated power runs to the system after the many mentions and recommendations for that. As my system is in a basement man cave, the main panel is just a short distance away. It would be cheap insurance. I have a good friend that is a professional electrician who has worked on my house several times too. I will get right on that one. 
 

And lastly, the McIntosh MPC1500 is not an inexpensive unit. It was $5,000 back in 2009 when I bought the whole system. I think it’s around $7,000 now!  The comment was made that you get what you pay for. I would like to think that what I got is pretty good. And also mentioned is the synergy with all the other Mac gear.  But I will contact McIntosh for peace mind. 
 

Again, many thanks to all for your guidance. 

I wanted to add more to this discussion, if I may.  If current is restricted voltage will drop.  That’s it.  If the voltage remains stable then the amp is drawing as much current as it can. 

After YEARS of watching AC  power fluctuate in apartments and my home the biggest problems I have seen are NOT the amount of power your amp draws.  The biggest problems are daily / seasonal variations in AC voltage and what your big appliances like your HVAC and electric range or hot water heater are doing.  The device in your system that’s going to be most susceptible to this is a linear amplifier. 

For this reason I take two approaches.  One is I use a cheap ($12-20) voltage meter or conditioner with a voltage meter.   Plug it in and watch your voltage sag or not.  Especially useful with these is to watch the N-E voltage as it may indicate voltage restrictions due to wiring length.  

The other thing is I use an actual voltage regulator and surge protector at the front of all my home entertainment systems.  The most expensive versions are from PS Audio, which regenerate power.  For that reason and that I live in a lightning prone area I use Furmans with series mode protection (SMP) and voltage regulation like this one (yes, this is an affiliate link).   It’s ridiculously less expensive than a PS Audio unit with similar power rating. 

I know some surge strips offer damage warranties, but my amp is 60 lbs I do NOT want to pull out and ship and wait for repairs.  Also storms sometimes pop up without warning.  While it is good advice to unplug equipment, half the time things happen I am out of the home or don't have time to react before it's happened.  

" I have had literally everything in my rack plugged into the Mac power center for nearly 16 years plus I just added a big powered sub a few weeks ago. It sounds great and I have had no problems at all."

That says it all. Your ears/practical self rule. Now you're brain washed with yes/no/maybe...

Get out now while you can-with your wallet intact!

"I am sold on the idea of installing dedicated power runs to the system after the many mentions and recommendations for that."

Maybe the #1 thing to optimize what you already have. Don't forget to finish it off with fancy audiophool approved outlets too. You may not even hear a difference/improvement. 

If not, confirmation to just enjoy your setup. 

Please be aware that some power conditioners such as those by PS Audio Regenerators ADD noise to the line; plus other problems. Amir at ASR tested that.

I would view power conditioners rather as surge protectors, and slightly better power strips. Given that all electronics run on DC with smoothing done at rectification, I fail to see what power conditioners can possibly contribute with AC adjustments (assuming they do anything at all) in a DC circuit. 

Where I live power grid voltage can drop to 90V, so I added as voltage regulator. Needless to say, plugging an amp directly into 90V outlet is a non-starter, so has to go through the voltage regulator. Most power conditioners do NOT regulate voltage, including the Regenerators (checked with PS audio). 

Re short peaks, isn't that supposed to be addressed with capacitors in the amp? And if we assume that most of us listen at WAY below max power, and caps are designed to handle max power, then caps are significantly over-dimensioned for normal listening levels.

my 2c. 

So after much discussion,  it boils down to the adage "let YOUR ears decide".  Funny how many threads arrive at this same truth.  Cheers. 

Whether to plug your amps directly into the wall or into a power regenerator or power conditioner is situational dependent.  Hence the variety of opinions and experiences shared in this thread.  Each audiophile must start by assessing the condition of the power being received from his or her wall.  That is the fundamental flaw in the analysis reported by ASR.  Amir did not begin, or ever report on the condition of the power source that he used in his tests.  Hence his conclusions are worthless.  A power regenerator will do nothing if the power coming in from the wall is within spec in the first place.  One the other hand, if the power is subject to wide voltage fluctuations due to demand, for example in high demand locations, or if the power is corrupted by spurious noise from other users nearby, which might occur from industrial machinery, then some sort of buffer can be quite useful.  Only you can decide if the addition of such equipment is necessary or helpful.  Since each of us lives in a different location, there is no universal answer. 

I have some very powerful amps, (Michi 8) and I run them from my AudioQuest Niagara 7000 on a dedicated line. They actually sound better than straight into the wall outlet.

ozzy

. 

zlone’s response is unclear to me. Did the PS Audio improve or degrade the SQ from his amplifier?

Lower power amps can be plugged into power conditioners which may improve their performance but big amps need to go directly into the wall to give them unlimited headroom.

A quote from Vinnie Rossi audio site see below:

Mike

’’With active power factor correction (PFC) and superior regulation and stability, the power supply ensures maximum performance regardless of AC mains quality. Housed in a fully enclosed compartment precision machined into Brama’s solid aluminum body, it is fully grounded and isolated from the audio circuitry, performing like a highly-responsive, well-tuned engine.’’ See Vinnie Rossi here.

It may help audiophiles understand that while line level devices (DAC, preamps, etc.) are usually fully regulated, linear amplifiers almost never are. 

That is, your preamp has little regulators which, combined with the power supply keep the working DC voltages very stable within a wide tolerance of incoming voltages.  Common IC regulators are 5V, 12V and 15V for instance.  They are good, small, cheap and relatively low current.  Think 1A or less.  Definitely too small and heat producing to include in most amps. 

Linear amplifiers however, with linear supplies are almost never regulated at all.  Rare exceptions are the Krell FPB and Sanders Magtech.   As a result of not being regulated the DC rails move in proportion to the wall voltage.  Not something that happens with your DAC at all.   Your DAC probably gets solid DC rails at anything over 100 VAC out of the wall. 

As a result, having a high current voltage regulator not only keeps your equipment safe and functioning it also ensures your amplifier can perform consistently in much worse power situations than it would otherwise.   I wrote more about this here. 

"contrary to ghd prentice there are a wide number of power conditioners that don't limit current at  all"

Contrary to audiotroy, I would rather trust ghdprentise's opinions on any audio-related subjects, as he isn't motivated by profit.

For those that don’t understand how a PC works, they are large transformers. The job of the power supply is to turn A/C into DC with a rectifier circuit. The Power Supply section of your Amplifier is a large transformer/Power Supply. They are designed to do the EXACT same thing. Why on earth do you think a PC will do a better job than the purpose-built power supply section of your Amp? The only scenario is if your Amp has a poorly designed PS section in which case you probably can’t hear the difference anyway. Please provide me wrong (not subjectively!). 

No doubt the power supply within amps is critical, first thing I look at with amps, only use monoblock amps at this point.  I want both to virtually equal what I see in stereo amps,  look at filtering and supply. Your amp should be quiet with this, I run tube SET with 103db sensitivity speakers, hardly hear any noise from power line.  Grounds important as well, I ran new grounding rod with equal length ground wires in order to not have grounds potential issue, no ground loops.

If you live in a 3rd World country or have cheaply built gear, a power conditioner might help. 

Otherwise, straight to the wall so you don't limit current...this is according to Nelson Pass, who also recommends using the power cord that comes with his amps. 

Power Conditioners do not solve any of these common problems:

See PDF here read pages 11 12 13 38

Mike

Otherwise, straight to the wall so you don't limit current...this is according to Nelson Pass, who also recommends using the power cord that comes with his amps.

Nelson who? What? Who dat? What kinda name is Nelson anyways? You gonna trust a dude called Nelson? No my man lemme tell you where it's at. I know a lot of dudes on the internet, and they do lotsa research from their barca-loungers, know what I mean? And they say you don't want no cheap cables, you want $5000 cables made of solid stainless steel. And if you can't swing $5000 cables well that sucks for ya but don't try and tell us your pathetic desinformation cause we know the truth! Look at that Nelson guy who can't even buy himself a cable. What does he know? Huh? I know who I believe, man. I do my research too.

By extension, is the common wisdom NOT to plug a powered subwoofer into a power conditioner? I’ll try it both ways.

If your system is transparent and resolving, you will hear the power conditioner.

There are active (Puritan, Audioquest) and passive (Shunyata) power conditioners. Then you have power regenerators (PS Audio) and isolation transformers (i.e. Torus). 
 

Good passive power conditioners like the older Shunyata Hydra, which I have used for many years with several amps including Pass Labs X250.5 did not negatively impacted the performance of the system. Then I made a mistake of replacing the Shunyata with Puritan PSM156. Not only did it limit the current to the amplifier (Pass XA30.8) but it also resulted in negatively impacting preamp and DAC. Yes it sounds like it gives quieter background but all that is is excessive filtering and limiting of dynamics. I ended up running all my components directly from the audiophile grade outlets that DO make a difference and sold the Puritan. 
For those who want to ask me if I measured the effect or conducted some sort of blind testing, I did not and didn’t need to. I heard it all. Plus when I plugged my Pass X260.8 mono amps into the Puritan it started ringing like your grandmother’s rotary phone. No need to measure the effect. That thing is pure and utter garbage. 
 

If I ever go back to using a power conditioner it will be a passive unit and only for source components. Properly designed amplifiers with good power supplies don’t need power conditioning. Just isolate your digital from the amp using two dedicated circuits and you are good to go. If in apartment I’d just rely on passive power conditioning. 

@wfowenmd zlone’s response is unclear to me. Did the PS Audio improve or degrade the SQ from his amplifier?

Apologies if I was not clear. Yes, there was a definite and positive difference when I moved the amplifier directly to the wall.

@audphile1 Your experience with the Puritan was the same as mine. Noisy.

In the end it comes down to listening over time to decide what works best for you. In my case the regenerator is the best solution I have tried to date for my front end components. It is not a jaw dropping difference, but an incremental and consistent improvement in my system.

I am one who is stymied by PS Audio using the word "regenerator" to describe that product. I would think most would actually believe it is recreating electricity that is better than what the electric company is providing you. Far from it, right? Atmasphere stated in another recent thread here that any of that kind of engineering ended in the 1980's. Power conditioning under the guise of regenerating.

And, Erik, why would you need voltage regulation if you have a unit (Panamax) that provides voltage monitoring. If you monitor your voltage and there is no fluctuation, you would not need regulation - surmising it is plugged into the same outlet/circuit at all times. With surge suppression on the other side of it, if a spike were to occur, the protection is the same in anything you use.

I was surprised at your affiliate link - that Furman is 49% off!! If you need a voltage regulator that is a great price.

PS Audio's power regenerators work by converting AC from the wall to DC (just like your amp's power supply does), then converting DC back to AC. So its output stage is essentially a large amplifier outputting a 50 or 60 Hz sine wave at the chosen voltage.

Which means that, theoretically, a power regenerator can output any kind of AC power since it is synthesizing it from DC. Think of the possibilities: You can take your entire system with you when your company relocates you to Europe and use it there as-is, or you could buy a full Accuphase stack from Japan and your power regenerator will feed it pure 100V 50 Hz AC power.

Interestingly, the old PS Audio (P300 and such) used to do just that, whereas newer models merely duplicate the incoming voltage and frequency. 

My statement "Engineers can work the problem out" does not hold water very well. How could you test your product in every conceivable way with the number of possible configurations of equipment, including power conditioners, cables out there? Its possibilities are exponential, which is true with everything in audio. Makes everyone's position right or wrong at some point in their posts.

This is where engineers earn their keep trying to figure out the best approaches to designing and testing.

Talked to Kent with Pass Labs at AXPONA a couple years ago about power cables. He said Pass Labs power cables are fine for their amps have filters. Im leery about general statements from audio companies. Not sure what their angle is in promoting their product. Pass Labs maybe an exception to this line of thinking.  I’m sure many companies know that many people will just toss aside OEM cables. Pass Labs may not think that way.

PS - Worth checking your conditioner's voltage display with a reliable meter.  While I trust them to be relatively accurate, in absolute terms I've seen them be 2-3V off.   This is not usually a problem unless you are seeing values at the edges of the range and are not sure if the voltage is still OK.  

@devinplombier 

The P300 you mentioned, like the current PS Audio Power Plants, are able to recreate sinewaves that can better the output signal from your AC outlet. Harmonic distortion be damned!

The "regenerators" of PS Audio simply recreate what you already have. And if you have voltage that fluctuates, all one needs is a voltage regulator.

So it really seems like overkill to me and while it has been some time (1999); a P300 sold for less than $1K back then. The cheapest PS Audio Power Plant is now $3,000. Unless you are renting (Think NYC), you are far better off installing a 20 AMP dedicated line and 20 AMP circuit breaker and purchasing a passive conditioner (voltage regulator with surge protection) if you feel the need. All of that should be substantially lower than $3K. 

While 25 years may explain a large price increase, what PS Audio did was insert "regenerators" into their conditioner lineup to fill the lower price voids. Capitalism at it's finest! You would have to explain to me how one of their regenerators is better than a $500 Furman voltage regulator. 

As @ditusa pointed out, headroom for transients is part of your home infrastructure (dedicated line; 20 Amp circuit breaker), something that a regenerator - or anything that simply duplicates what you already have - is not going to improve upon.