How close are you to being to your endgame? My system outline and I'm almost there.

You have assembled a great system and obviously done it very thoughtfully. Congratulations. I’m sure you will derive great enjoyment from the music. What is your room like in terms of dimensions and treatment? 
 

You really do have top-notch components in your system, and I congratulate you on getting where you want to be.

Nice work pursuing, and obtaining the kind of sound you want to live with! For me, it is more like I have reached a place where everything is "good enough." Humans are curious creatures, and I believe we are wired to be dissatisfied with what we have - it is probably a survival mechanism.  So, I think I have a very enjoyable system, good enough to investigate new music, and to feel very moved by the art. But then my brain says - "hmm - I've always wondered what omni speakers would be like in my room." And then I look up those cute little omni speakers from Decware. And that little itch starts up.

But truly, my system could be end game enough for me if I am able to let it. I really get a kick out of the good things it does. If I could just "Full Stop" after that last thought, it would be end game indeed.

I guess you're right with the "good enough" statement for sure. That's how I feel about mine. There is plenty better out there than mine but I don't know if I would even buy it if I had unlimited funds. I really like what I have at this point and I like the sound signature of the whole system. Maybe a better dac at some point but I'll have to save for years lol my system is good enough and will especially be once I get the newer cartridge. I watch videos and read about the newest and greatest this or that but I think mine can hold its own and is plenty good enough for me. 

Next I'll work on finishing my room this winter. Right now my system is in an open basement. The whole thing is I think 32' wide and probably 40 feet from the front wall to the only wall behind my chair. I have it setup where it's about 15' wide and from the front wall to my head is probably 20' feet or so. The ceiling is about 8'10" and the right wall is sheet rock. The left side is all my record shelves to make a makeshift wall. The front wall doesn't have sheet rock yet. I have about 15 more sheets to hang at some point this fall when I get more time. The front is concrete with studs and mineral wool insulation with fabric over it. So like a whole wall of absorption which is not ideal. I know things will get better with some more reflections eventually and gain some soundstage width and depth when it gets finished up. The floor is concrete with a large thick rug in the center of the listening area. This winter the goal is to finish that last couple of walls and then start really finishing the whole thing with carpet and furnish like a really finished basement. I have to do everything slowly because the wife hates spending money on the basement and really hates everything to do with my stereo lol. 

I have reached endgame and I did that last year on my first send with speakers after endgaming my portable audio stuff @aj1735 

My system is posted on Audiogon. The only component I'm interested in replacing is my Chord Dave DAC. 

I have  not changed anything in the living room system for 20 years aside from styli, some "rolled" tubes and drivers and a few new runs of the "same" speaker cable due to cat damage.

Next step is a simple SS setup with the same TT and CD deck and more conventional speakers (if I ever get around to it).

DeKay

Great to hear you are approaching your end game system. It would be great to see it. If you would post some photos and ID your components under your user ID in virtual systems we could see it... and as it comes together while upgrading the venue.

congrats on your system. Definitely sounds like you have built it wisely

I'll try to get some pics posted after the zenith mk3 shows up tomorrow and I get it all together. I'm just hoping to get some extra time to actually listen and enjoy it. We have horses and the kids are always busy wanting help with them. Seems like in the summer I don't get into the house after work and the barn until after 10pm usually. Just always something to do outside in the barn with the horses or cows after working all day. I definitely start feeling it more as I'm getting older lol 

Probably close in theory but in reality I’m always looking to try something different just because so practically the game will continue to go on to some extent for as long as I am able to play. 
 

I do have hifi gear all around the house just to provide multiple places to have fun listening but will likely sell some of it off at some point as part of overall downsizing.
 

 I have managed to reduce my total investment in this stuff however in recent years by better managing price and bling  as influences in my buying decisions and focusing mainly on how things sound, enabling more cost effectiveness in achieving my ultimate sound. 

I’ve been end game for a long time, as I am not one for constant changing of brands/components. My system is essentially the same as it was twenty-five years ago - only the front ends have evolved. I’ve been happy to stick, but the game changes every once in while. Along comes some new development that pushes the envelope. I do the upgrades that I can afford, but don’t sweat about the ones that are beyond me. It doesn’t matter that I’m no longer keeping up with the cutting edge in respect of power amps and loudspeakers or even the turntable. I’d be content to live with the sound quality that I’ve got now for the rest of my life. 

Good to hear your end game system is almost there. It would be great to hear it if you post a link of your system video.

Have had multiple versions of 2-channel systems since 1975.

100% satisfied with my current system.

Endgame system? I'm there.

PS- 

@aj1735  Very nice system OP!

@tomcarr thank you. It really is pretty good feeling to not be wanting everything better. I've had my esoteric dv-50 universal player player the longest and I've never really had any urge to get something different. It works great, sounds even better and I even like the looks of it. Lol then my vpi aries turntable I've had the next longest. It's been the exact same way with it as the esoteric. It's plenty good enough for me and I'd have to spend a good amount more to try to get much better. So I haven't even thought about different tables because again mine works great, sounds great and I love the looks of it too. The the Rowland coherence ii preamp and bps along with the 8ti are pretty new in the system but I love them

I don't think I can or even could get much better than those. My newontech dac07 came in a trade to replace my old mytek Manhattan ii dac as kinda a short term piece but I really enjoy it. Yes there are better ones for sure but it sounds very natural and musical in my system without any analytical edge and that was even streaming from the wiim pro. So I think the dac is plenty good for some time. Then the innuos zenith mk3 should be from everything I've read, just the perfect fit into the system. So with all of that, I really don't have any urge or reason to want more. I would like to get a used ds audio w2 or 003 cartridge and energizer. After that my vinyl will be plenty good enough. Right now I am using an old denon 103r with an old project phono box ds phono stage that I've had as a spare foe a second system. Right now the vinyl sounds pretty good even with that.

I have watched some videos and read some things about people being at the end of their journey. It really makes sense to me 

Might as well have time to enjoy other things and just be happy to listen to some music when you have time. 

Looks like you will be in need of one of these
https://www.thecableco.com/catalogsearch/result/index/?p=2&product_list_order=price_desc&q=Usb

along with

https://www.thecableco.com/catalogsearch/result/index/?product_list_order=price_asc&q=Ether%20net
and 

https://www.thecableco.com/catalogsearch/result/index/?q=Power%20cable&product_list_order=price_asc
I am sure that going from a WIIM to the Innuos will be a jaw dropping and then a _____ eating grin experience. Enjoy the music!

@gkelly I hope it's going to be that kind of experience. I'll eventually get to the cables but that can be my play around time after I get all the major components done and purchased. I've never really played around with different streamers much. I had a microrendu before with roon and then the wiim. So I'm hoping this is that kind of experience and just another check off the list of gear. I really think that's where I'm going to be. I can always make a second system again for my daughter to play with and enjoy buying and selling for it but this main one is pretty good right now. I'm actually playing some right now and just smiling. 

Really nice system @aj1735 and definitely post some pics we do love ogling each others gear.   And pretty satisfied here I rarely feel the need to upgrade but may occasionally get the itch to hear something new. Next step is a pair of hornspeakers currently being built for me and after that I may be pretty much done. 

Good for you. My system is always getting there, I think. However my house of stereo setup takes it to another level. If you check it out, you can see I also run the Innuos ZENith mk3. With my setup, the USB connection is a huge step down from running it via a DDC I2s connection. The USB is like a heavy veil in comparison. Of course I have multiple add-ons along the line with different dac/equipment so no clue how it would perform in yours. You're not done, take my word lol.

Very happy for you @j1735   You are in a very good place that can be elusive so enjoy! Reading through your gear I can understand why the combo would sound great together.  

I have 2 audio chains, a main system and a flea watt system.

Since I’m retired, I tried to short-cut the trial-error process to start my main system  at near end-game level, targeting transparency and neutrality without sounding analytical/clinical: VPI Avenger Rim, VDH Grail SB,  Linn Klimax DSM/2 Organik DAC, Constellation Inspiration Pre+Stereo, Vimberg Mino D. 

After I set up main system after moving, will fix room and decide on future upgrades if needed.  Still deciding on budgeting for tweaks/rabbit holes: Ethernet filter, Ethernet switch, QSA, Schnerzinger

@grannyring thanks. I have had a ton of gear in the past but this is the best I've ever had it sound. I really think it's a synergy thing. The whole system just sounds great together. I'm definitely excited to get the zenith mk3 tomorrow. It will end up being a nice unplanned birthday gift to myself lol

@kennyc sounds like a great system that you have. I think just starting with a great system would be great and simpler than all the trial and error but definitely more costly upfront. I have to try and save up money and then sell something before I get anything new usually. The problem is that now I've sold most of the extra gear I've had sitting around. So money will come a little slower now. I've definitely enjoyed the journey of the different systems though. Learned some things that I like and don't like. I don't think I'd change much though along the way. It's been a great process. 

Nice gear, enjoy the music! With me, just because I have a dream car, doesn’t mean I don’t have a dream car 😂

Congratulations on approaching your end game.  You have some excellent, musical equipment.  I have been at what I consider my end game system for over a year.  I made improvements over two years prior to enjoy in retirement.  I do not anticipate any equipment upgrades.  Enjoy the music.   Post photos and a description of your system in your profile.   

Congratulations on setting up a system you love.  I upgraded to the Zen MK3 and it made a difference in the sound with my system.  I’m all set with my main system.  Working on the system for the TV setup at the lake house for the summer.  Setting up a new system is Always a fun part of this hobby.  For me It’s a musical journey not a destination.  

Well if I again say 'I'll never sell these' I will probably eat my hat (again).  That said, I do love my system. 

I'm pretty much where I want to be at. 

Speaker placement and room treatment still need some work but I'm pretty much done spending money unless something dies.  Every now and again I think about getting some new equipment  but then I turn on my gear and am very satisfied with it.  

aj1735, Your system is certainly of a higher pedigree, more complete, and more thought-out than my own. BUT the notion of "almost done" and "done, unless something else breaks", brings to mind software projects from my working days.

In engineering projects, and surely other domains of construction or development, the first 80 or 90 percent of the tasks tend to be much easier to complete than the final 10 percent or so. The endpoint has a way of creeping on the calendar, subtly moving from one month to the next.

In my own case, psychology of behavior seems to be significant. I've been reading about new and used audio equipment (and studying this board) for years. The hunt has become as much fun as the kill, I'm afraid, and now I admit that I cannot stop. YMMV.

Cheers!

Don’t really need to upgrade.  Have added things, no upgrades/replacements since 2011

Decware Mini Torii 2011

Ref 3A de Capo speakers 2010

VPI HW-19 mk iv with jelco SA250-st Shure V15VxMR jico stylus 2007

Emotiva ERC-4. 2020 replaced MH cd-25 that died

MHDT Stockholm v2 DAC 2021

Wiim Ultra 2025-loving this

Not using

Mac Tuners. mr-71, 67, 74

Schitt Eitr

Grommes PHI-26 (second system, saved from a forest fire)

The past year has witnessed a marked improvement in DAC and LAN networking.  I moved from cabled ethernet to all single mode fiber optics(via Microtik managed hub), from USB to I2S(replacing an Esoteric K-01X/Sonore Sig. Rendu Deluxe/USB combo with an Audio-GD R2R HE7 Mk3 with I2S), and above all a Pareto Audio music server with a Pareto Pi node that converts EN-over-fiber to I2S.  I don’t think there is another offering in the market with EN fiber directly into I2S.

Together these changes removed the last traces of digital artifice and shifted the base line enough to seriously consider retiring vinyl from my system.   That’s a finish line for me--at least with respect to the source.

Another milestone was a Manley Labs Massive Passive line-level studio equalizer.  

I’m there. Maybe add a second tonearm and mono cartridge down the road? Perhaps a different power conditioner someday? A six meter XLR run of Cardas Clear from the amp to monos might be nice too someday? But yeah definitely got the rig at the endgame stage!

@vuch and everyone else that's posted, that's so awesome that so many people are there or very close to it. I know with myself, it really is almost a relief. I don't even think about wanting anything more. Maybe play around with a second system or something like that for fun but really am happy now. Work on the room and tweaks if I'm bored but I was smiling last night when I was playing. That's all we can ask for 

I would challenge all that say they are done to print their posting and place it in the folder where you put new audio equipment receipts.   It may make you smile the next time you see it!

LMAO! 

There are no guarantees in this world, except death, taxes and the audiophile's endless need to.upgrade.

Endgame? No such thing for me! 

I enjoy the endless exploration of tweaks - snake oil for some - as they can make surprising differences. The 'better' the system,  the more obvious it becomes that 'small things' (not necessarily inexpensive!) can advance its musicality.

Never say never. “Quote the Raven, nevermore.”

I done, untill a speaker change. See above. 

My system has been in upgrade mode since 1968 when I got my first speaker, amp,tuner combo from Pacific Stereo in Pasadena, Calif.boy did it sound good back then.I still have the cheap speaker boxes that were reasonably solid enough for me to replace the drivers several times but they sound nothing like my recently set up Tekton Moab’s I picked up locally for a deal that prompted my unpacking of a BHK 250 that had been in its box for 4 years.So I then sold my previous gear, obtained a new preamp from PS Audio to accompany the BHK and started thinking this might be my endgame set up but Lo and behold there are just too many desirable upgrades , cables, conditioners, fuses, and so on and on, not to mention the reading of endless gear reviews that lead to further coveting of goods beyond my resources .I therefore think that the endgame is just out of reach enough to be an enjoyable chase for further refinement.

I'm afraid I will hit my expiration date first. 

OK it’s Wednesday. There are some of us(probably just me) would like an update on how you feel about the new 🆕 sound. 

I am at least a million miles away from what I would consider my theoretical end game.  But, as they say, "It is what it is," and I am afraid that is what it is going to be, meaning that I will never own the end game I desire.  But, with that typed, I guess this means that I am probably at my end game, whether I am satisfied or not.

I am a million miles away ~~~ I will never own the end game 

The absolute world’s best sound audio system is around $10k.

The true end-game audio starts with removing veils and glare in system’s sounds. The veiled sound masks the true audio music behind it. Veiled/glare sounds are a headache to non-audiophiles. They hear more veils/glare than audio music behind veils.

Wavetouch audio makes veil/glare free audio systems and costs only $10k now. Check out Agon ads.  Alex/Wavetouch audio

@gkelly I got it all installed and up and running last night after midnight. So I played around for a couple of hours and I was stunned at the improvement with the zenith over the wiim pro. Obviously I will get more time with it but I loved it. Just seems so natural with still lots of detail. I don't play cds a lot but reminds me of better cds or more like the few sacds that I have and I thought they sounded great. I put the updated picture up with the zenith in it. I do wish it was the silver version but I will survive I think. Now I'm going to just enjoy it for a long time. I'll start saving up for the cartridge I want but not in a huge hurry especially when the streaming sounds as good as it does. I'm just running low on things to sell to try and help me save up some cash. Might need to sell some more vinyl yet. I can rebuy vinyl anytime. Just want to have all the equipment done with only the cartridge left. I so love this hobby. 

I'm pretty much there at endgame with my 'vintage' system:

Radio Tuner: 1977 Marantz Model 2100 AM / FM Stereo Tuner

Preamplifier: 1968 Dynaco Model PAS-3X Tube Preamp

Amplifier: (2) 1975 MacIntosh Model MC2100 (210 wpc running as monoblocks)

Equalizer: 1976 BSR F Model FEW-III 12 - Band Analog

Scope: 1973 Panasonic Model SH-3434 Stereo / Quadrophonic Frequency Analyzer

Turntable: 1981 Technics Model SL-6 Direct Drive Linear Tracking

CD: 1990 Sony 5-DIsc Digital Media Player Model F- 787

RtR: 1975 Akai Model GX - 265D Reel Tape Play / Record Deck

8TR: 1974 Pioneer Model HR-100 8- Track Play / Record Deck

CSS: 1977 Teac Model A-400 Vertical Cassette Play / Record Deck

Speakers: 1970 Sansui Model SP-5500 

All pieces have been fully restored. Cosmetically, all are near mint condition. Sonically, very very nice - surprisingly so, especially to those more into the modern era equipment (Biggest surprises are the 8-track and the speakers; most people have never heard a quality 8TR deck and think all Sansui speakers are 'Kabuki' junk - and have never even heard of these rather rare 109 pound, Japan-only speakers...)

I have gotten to the point (after trying out a total of 17 different pairs of speakers in my listening room; plus various tubes in the preamp and various cables / interconnects and power supplies throughout) where I don't see any noticeable improvements anymore. At least not within the confines of my tolerances for cost, etc. And I have thousands of hours worth of vinyl, tapes, CDs, etc. to provide a good variety of enjoyable music. 

It's actually a great place to be. Very nice not to be continually chasing down 'something better'... and just enjoying the fruits of my labor. Plus, there are added side benefits that this particular niche of the hobby provides. It's the single biggest draw / conversation starter in my home (even beats out my saltwater coral reef tank on the opposite end of the room); Older visitors marvel at the tech they actually remember from their youth; younger guests are blown away by the nuanced full-spectrum sound of quality analog medium, and all that polished aluminum, chrome, bouncing VU meters; when their only reference points are usually phone earbuds or TV sound bars...

For me, I just enjoy putting on a few LPs or tapes, etc. and sitting right in the 'sweet spot' and letting the music take me away...

At some point you reach a point of diminishing returns and stay there. This is my end of the line system:

VPI TNT V, SME V, Koetsu Urushi, Vendetta SCP2-D, Conrad Johnson Premier 14, Conrad Johnson Premier 11a, Wilson Maxx 2, Inouye power conditioner, Moon 280D DAC

Some of it is id older gear but it sounds very nice to me and tinkering with it hasn't exposed any shortcomings.

My other systems are:

Sota Cosmos, SME V, Lyra Clavis, Bryston BP17, Conrad Johnson Premier 15 phono, Classe DR3 VHC, Martin Logan CLS, Hegel HD12 DAC
\

Roksan Radius 5/Nima/Goldring Eroica LX Classe DR-7, Classe DR3 VHC bridged monos + PSE V monos (bass), Classe DAC1 DAC, Vandersteen 4A

Yes, I’m at my end-game system.

And I’m lucky because it essentially coincided with current downgrade in finances meaning I’m not really in this game anymore. 

Like many audiophiles I owned lots of gear over the decades.  And since I like to play with the sound, I often had more than one set of speakers to play with.  At one point I had up to seven pairs of speakers, including Thiel 3.7, Thiel 2.7, Waveform, MBL omnis, Spendor and others.

Also, in 2009 I had my listening room redesigned with the input of an acoustician, so it’s a great sounding room. 

A couple years ago, I went through a big  shedding of gear I didn’t need or was willing to sell, not only to reducing amount of gear, but also to afford my “ end game“ Joseph audio perspective 2 speakers. 

And that’s where I’ve  landed. 

I have enough gear to play with so that I’m not going to get bored.

I have the Joseph speakers , but I also kept my Thiel 2.7 floor standards as well, which I absolutely love.  I also kept my little Spendor s3/5 s - easy to store and easy to throw in the system whenever I want to glory in their beautiful sound.  And I also have kept my very old Thiel model 2 speakers - ancient simple 2-way monitors that have a magic I can’t give up.

Aside from that I can have fun tube rolling on my Conrad Johnson premier 12 mono blocks (I bought a whole bunch of different tubes to play with a couple years ago).

I can also play with preamps since I own both a Conrad Johnson premier 16 LS2 tube preamplifier as well as a benchmark LA4 solid state preamplifier - different flavours.

For sources I have  my beloved Transrotor Fat Bob S turntable, 12 inch acoustic solid arm, and bends micro ebony L cartridge.

JE Audio HP10 phono stage

For digital I stream  my ripped CD library and Tidal via my Bluesound Node to my Benchmark DAC 2L.

So tons to keep me happy for a long time.  

The only two things I can see as future purchases are:

New cartridge when that needs changing.

I’ve considered picking up a really cheap, decent solid state amplifier to occasionally throw into the system.  So I may keep my eye on the used market off and on for that.

I have to say as somebody who’s been such a fervent audiophile stocking and trying so much gear in the past 30 years, the prospect of not doing that anymore feels pretty weird.  But again if I had to stop, I sure ended up in a nice place! 

Endgame?  Such an interesting term. While I often hear it interpreted as the a quest for the ultimate, I see it as meaning good enough.

My system is in my profile and after working in the audio industry for years, spending some time audio engineering and being a musician my whole life, I feel very satisfied. While I know that objectively there are components and speakers that have the ability to outperform my gear, my current system crosses my personal threshold for musicality and that magic illusion of the delivery system disappearing. Is it the end all and be all of audiophilia? By no means.  Is it good enough so that I can devote my finances and time to the pursuit of other things that bring me joy? Absolutely.

I don't lean towards the notion a System is produced to be End Game / Ultimate no longer to be considered as it is not able to be surpassed.

I prefer to think of the Journey as one that ends with discovery and discoveries yet to be made are in waiting.

A Sound produced as a result of an Electronic Signal being sent for Amplification through a selection of Circuits with a Particular Topology via Connecting Cables is a End Sound that is in certain configurations of the audio devices able to make a very good impression when heard. 

From my own experiences had, when the End Sound produced is able to Impress, I work to build on from such a Cornerstone. 

The selected Speakers Coupling to a room is a good place to place ones attention. Energies created in the Listening Space are having measures put in place to the listening Space, with the intention to mitigate the negatives that can occur to the End Sound. A negative influence passed on by local energies can be easily detected for being audible!

 As stated by myself in another Thread:  

 "Coupling a Speaker to a room is the way forward to create a confidence the speaker interacts at its best when transmitting sound through the physical structure of the room, including the floor, walls, ceiling and locally placed items. 

The Speaker / Room Interaction can have a profound effect that is a negative impact on the quality of the sound being transferred. Creating effects like room modes (standing waves), Reflected Sound, Causing Local Placed Materials to produce sound. Each when being generated will be negatively affecting the overall acoustic characteristics of the room. "

When a Speaker is undeniably approaching or at an Optimised Coupling to the Space it is being used in, there is a substantial Positive Outcome. Earlier produced sound that was assessed as impressive is not longer wanted to be maintained, the notion to reverse what has been done and return to what was the previous interface will be speedily rejected as a practice.

With this new influence on place, opportunity to be further inquisitive are to become at the forefront to be considered.

End Sound can be Investigated / Toyed With, as there is subtle additions that can make impressions that are preferential and when discovered wanted to be maintained.

My Own System is with a selection of devices I am Loyal to, they are mainstays and then there are mainstays that are used for periods of time until Rolled for an alternative device to create a Variant of the End Sound.

Using my system and the configurations it can be assembled, as a result of devices readily available to swap out, I am able to experience a variety of End Sounds where neither is more impressive than another, but some are known with immediacy for what is to be created, as they are familiar configurations.

There is on occasion an experience created that the End Sound is quite unwanted, where a Purchased Device or a Loaned Device can't be synergetic within the system, bit this is extremely positive, as it is measure of the value of work already put in.

Experiencing variants to the End Sounds Audio Equipment is capable of producing, has been the most fulfilling when I have not being limiting myself to what is able to be created, expanding on what is able to created, is the most fulfilling. 

Inevitably one will have equipment to run two systems and have idle devices or One System and a increased quantity of idle devices if this is a route adopted.

I am not shy to loan devices to others for extended periods, Turntables, Tonearms, Amplifiers, Speakers and Cables have all been under the care of others in the past and it is still do in the present. The period of the loan usually is an indicator an attractive synergy is occurring elsewhere.   

Every time I think I’m done, great used buys keep dragging me back in!

There are certainly many upgrades I could do to my system, but a combination of financial limitations and my advancing age make them unrealistic.  I just recently did some upgrades though.  New surround speakers, a new streamer, a new subwoofer, (first time I've had those two items) and all new cabling.  

After a few weeks of enjoying these upgrades, I love my system more than ever.  However, now that I have a subwoofer, I'm thinking that adding a second unit might be the way to go.  I've read many things here and elsewhere advocating the two subwoofer setup.  But that would probably be it for me.  That would be my endgame.

Current 5.1  system:

McIntosh:

MX122 A/V processor, MVP871 audio/video disc player, MCP1500 power controller, MC501 power amps (3 ea), MC402 power amp.

Atoll MS120 streamer

Legacy Audio:

Whisper HD mains, Marquis center, Studio HD surrounds, Foundation subwoofer.

I think "endgame" has to take into account one’s unique and idiosyncratic sense of value. All of us may certainly want to spend more money, but there comes a point where diminishing returns start to hold us back. Just as never being satisfied is probably an adaptive mechanism, so is a sense of diminishing returns. I am at the point where I would have to start spending crazy amounts of money to get a different sound and I’m not sure that it would be an improvement over what I already have. For some people Hegel and Klipsch is their endgame and for others CH Precision and Sound Labs is where they stop. Definitely a personal decision and it is unfortunate that it is often influenced by FOMO or jealousy.
 

Further, it should take into account  the environment in which you listen. Putting crazy expensive stuff with the "ultimate" capabilities in a small room without any treatment is just plain silly. I know people focus on source, amplification and speakers, but the room is just as important if not more so.