I am so happy.....

Blue tooth sounds great using the Topping bc3....$69. Love it!

Why?

Thanks it is an interesting experience...

I've had some first hand experience with how powerful room acoustics can be, verifying your approach to good sound. I got to listen to Revel Ultima Salon II, JBL 4367, some Golden Ear towers (don't know which model), and a few other speakers going down to $2000 a pair in a room that isn't sounding good yet. They were fed with Big McIntosh and Mark Levinson amps and high end digital sources - don't know which. In that room the choice of speaker/electronics couldn't overcome the situation. I could hear some differences but the overall effect of the space swamped whatever the speakers and electronics could do. It just plain sounds bad in there right now and it makes all those speakers sound bad in pretty much the same way. There's no doing anything about it other than fixing that room. Well, there was one thing - turn them down and sit really close. That helped a bit.

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@mahgister 

But i never wanted to listen my favorite music WITHOUT an acoustical relative perfection learning  stoically to deal  with a low level quality sound ... i wanted audiophile relative top level experience...That was my goal...At the lower cost...I succeeded...

I've had some first hand experience with how powerful room acoustics can be, verifying your approach to good sound. I got to listen to Revel Ultima Salon II, JBL 4367, some Golden Ear towers (don't know which model), and a few other speakers going down to $2000 a pair in a room that isn't sounding good yet. They were fed with Big McIntosh and Mark Levinson amps and high end digital sources - don't know which. In that room the choice of speaker/electronics couldn't overcome the situation. I could hear some differences but the overall effect of the space swamped whatever the speakers and electronics could do. It just plain sounds bad in there right now and it makes all those speakers sound bad in pretty much the same way. There's no doing anything about it other than fixing that room. Well, there was one thing - turn them down and sit really close. That helped a bit.

@mceljo

I suspect that playing with different brands is similar to rolling tubes were the result can be "different" as much as "better" or "worse" in a lot of cases.

I agree. Different but not necessarily better is something I’ve found frequently. Recently I changed my TV to a big 75" flat screen, which is located smack between the speakers. I was very concerned about how it might change the sound. It did change the sound, but in a way that seems as natural as before. The bass response needed to be adjusted. More recently I experimented with putting absorption behind my tweeter horns as I suspected that sound was diffracting from the horn mouth and going around behind them. This created a much stronger measured effect than I expected at the listening position, with the lower end response of the horn dropping off, and early delay times in that range also coming down quite a bit. The spectrogram analysis looks very clean. I didn’t realize how much of the later reflections were emerging from the surfaces directly behind the horn. Now that I’ve re-equalized it the effect is obviously not as noticeable. It’s a bit more refined but as I get used to it the improvement seems less important. It’s just business as usual. So that’s another issue with upgradeitits - the improvement is more exciting when it’s new. If it’s getting rid of something really bothersome than that’s definitely going to improve long term satisfaction. But if it’s something more subtle that wasn’t bothering you before but is noticeable, the satisfaction of the improvement itself fades over time. Whatever this absorption did is something nice that I really didn’t need to enjoy the music. Am I enjoying it more now, or is this again just something different? In a way it’s just something different. Some early reflections don’t always sound unnatural. They add a little vibrant effect at the expense of some fine details. This sort of thing happens in real life with real acoustic instruments in real spaces all the time so it doesn’t come across as wrong sounding, at least to me.

Harry says -do you feel lucky punk?

and the punk isn't feeling so lucky... and he backs down

but then the punk says- I got's to know... and then he was lucky, but not the luck he was looking for

Call me a punk-  I got's to know - maybe I'll get lucky too

For me, there's more to this hobby than just listening to music - its finding the silver linings

I am happy not because i enjoy music and declare to myself that the sound is so  good...It is yes, but...

We all think , most of us that our sound is good...

Especially people with costly piece of gear....

I am happy because i know, i dont believe, i know, HOW i  has prepared acoustically and psyco-acoustically my speakers/room to reach  my actual sound quality...

I dont boast about my gear and his " marvellous" sound like some , i only know what my sound experience was BEFORE acoustic treatment and acoustic mechanical control, and AFTER it...

I have no way to compare my sound experience to your sound experience...

But i know what most people will never know: the DIFFERENCE between acoustic tuning optimization before and after...

Then i am happy with my soundefield, but what make me more happy is that i know HOW  we can  replace upgrade obsession  by acoustic and WHY i will never upgrade and throwing any more money...

Basic experiments in acoustic science will make you free of pseudo science: measurements of gear pieces to justify upgrade...

Measurements are useful for designers not so much for customers....Most customers have no idea how to control the acoustic cues and experience in their room anyway...

Then be happy with what you have yes, if not, try acoustic... Dont upgrade save if some basic piece of gear is not on the same quality level than the others...

This is my advice....

Good for you!  Welcome to the "club"!

Why are happy?

SNS expressed some of what I think about regarding this:  Each of us hears differently and have different preferences.  While I like bass, some of my younger friends go overboard, in my opinion. They think my systems lack Ooomp! that their systems provide with thundering bass (I think we have all been beside the car in stopped traffic that literally vibrates body panels from the thud of large subwoofers and big amps — what a headache!).   I prefer more delicacy in the music, so I can hear nuances and not just bang, bang, bang!  I think it’s true when people say, “Some distortion people like”.  And we are all different.

I have questioned if I ever could hear as well as some other people — not just now when I’m older, but even when I was young.  It was not my ability to hear but my ability to discern.     Someone would say, “Do you hear that?  I can’t hear that on those other speakers, but I can hear it through these speakers.”  And I often wasn’t sure what they meant or were hearing, though I just nodded and smiled, “Yeah, man!”  I could go to a high-fi showroom and the salesperson would play something and stand there with that satisfied grin, reciting all the statistics and accolades, and Im thinking, “I wonder if these would sound good in my less-than-optimal room, or if I could even tell how they really sound.”  I so envy the people that have supreme confidence in their abilities to perceive better-than from lesser-than.

Good for you! Happy Listening. 🎼👌🏼

I am very happy for you!  Happiness with your system is all that matters! Congrats!

Audiophiledom is a journey, not a destination.

The journey has a destination and a final end point for those who know acoustic...

The others frantically change gear in an obsessive never ending unsatisfaction..Or deal stoically with unsatisfaction or are happy  with music and a not very good sound...

 Now I listen music without dreaming about  an upgrade...My speakers/room tuning is optimal....I dont need anything else...

My actual system has 8 years in my room... But i learned enough acoustic only during  the last 2 years...It is not simple matter...But it is now done...

All in all peanuts costs... The journey make well more sense with low cost and a ratio S.Q. /price over the roof... This is the GOAL...

But i never wanted to listen my favorite music WITHOUT an acoustical relative perfection learning  stoically to deal  with a low level quality sound ... i wanted audiophile relative top level experience...That was my goal...At the lower cost...I succeeded...

Audiophiledom is a journey, not a destination. To me, by definition an audiophile is someone who appreciates great sounding music produced on high quality equipment and has a passion for improving that sound on a continuing basis. The level of obsession or frequency of tinkering varies by the individual, but it is never done. There is always what's next. There is no end point - there may be plateaus, which may last for quite a while, but if you are an audiophile, you never stop wondering what if?????

Thinking that only money can buy Hi-Fi is idolatry, fetichism of the gear by corporate market conditioning coupled to acoustic and psycho-acoustic ignorance...

I am not satisfied, i am in heaven with a 3D soundscape in two listening positions...

My 500 bucks system trash all my 8 headphones...And his ratio S.Q./price is over the roof...

Many system are better than mine yes, but trust me i am not so far behind.... It is easy to verify....

For sure i will not convince deluded people who compare DIRECTLY high end audio system to a Ferrari and other low cost one to a volkswagen... Simplistic car metaphor dont work sorry, because they forgot the tire/ road and environment condition AKA the speakers/ room acoustic...

Thanks Helmholtz ... Father of acoustic and psycho-acoustic science...

Congratulations.  

Being on a fixed income, I feared that my fate was to be a permanently dissatisfied audiophile, but discovered to my surprise that I have reached my destination.

Can I imagine a finer system?  Of course.  But what I am hearing is extremely pleasing, and to improve it noticeably I would have to break the bank.

I am good with what I've got.  

I am so happy. 'cause today I found my friends, they're in my head...."

@asctim - I can relate to experimentitis. I'm very happy with my current system and don't plan to ever truly upgrade from my speakers or integrated amplifier as it would take more of a financial investment than I consider to be justifiable for me for a variety of reasons.  I'm an engineer, so often have curiosities that I'm interested to explore.  As an example, I am fairly new to the "cables make a difference" side of things, so now I'm interested in toying around with cables a bit more for the sake of the experience than a desire to improve the sound of my system.  Cables are such a rabbit hole that it's somewhat daunting to figure out where to even start.  I'm currently leaning toward upgrading within my current cable brand based on the assumption that if I'm happy with their "signature sound" I'll likely be happy with whatever they consider to be better.  There's also a top dollar for what I'd ever consider reasonable to spend no matter the results.  I suspect that playing with different brands is similar to rolling tubes were the result can be "different" as much as "better" or "worse" in a lot of cases.

I was happy with my reference system until I wasn’t. It sounded good but now, for sure, sounds better. It is unusual for many audiophiles to hold the line against the bug to do so. However, with a thriving used audio equipment softens the financial stress of upgrading. I have an equipment graveyard. Nevertheless, I have enjoyed most of my equipment even though I have often moved beyond it. An important part of my education as an audiophool was my evolution of equipment in various configurations.

There's upgradeitis, and then there's experimentitis. I have been very happy with my systems many times, but I can never get over the question "I wonder what it would sound like if..." And then I wonder "Why am I so fascinated with this audio thing?" I guess we all need something to do. I change my diet around a lot too, not because I'm unhappy with the current diet, but just wondering what will happen, like if I change from a keto diet to an ultra low fat / high carb diet? So I try it and find out I can ride my bicycle faster with lots of carbs, but need to bring food with me on longer rides and dress warmer in cold weather. I deal with hot weather much better but also pee a lot more. 

This is a great thread because we definitely place different priorities on gear and enjoying music. I definitely have upgradeitis. But I enjoy it to the full.

It started with moving to my 3rd home. It was my first old home which had ’formal’ rooms. Old homes seem to have better proportions for listening to music. All of a sudden the same system sounded 18x better than before without an upgrade.

So I thought, ’let’s see if I can make it better!’. I added a Technics 1200G turntable...yes, sounds better. Then I switched the room layout 180 degrees...holy smokes!!! Easily the 2nd best improvement...the first being the move to the house. Then the switch to tube gear...a little bit better.

Then the wife made us move!

But I countered with another, even older, home with very formal rooms. It’s not as good as the other room...but about 75% there. But now I know all about rooms vs upgrades ratio and it is helping me unlock the potential of this room. I’ve stopped upgrading electronics for the moment but not the room.

I’ve always enjoyed the journey more than the destination. I’m not goal-obsessed. I’ve always been more process-obsessed. So upgradeitis is here to stay for me. Bring it on. And yes, to each their own.

1. So you built your Neurochrome 686 stereo amp? How long did it take you? 

2. Are you willing to post pictures of it?

Thanks! 

Very fine that you are happy and satisfied, but suggest you may want to consider staying away from audio forums--a bar is not the best environment to hang for a reformed drinker ;-)

Variability amongst humans means a multitude of responses to audio reproduction, contentedness comes at widely varied levels of fidelity.

And so, the question becomes how one responds to the process of achieving their necessary level of fidelity for contentedness. If the process is enjoyable the process will continue, if not, process will end. I just wonder if the present response or feelings of those who quit the process is long lasting. The mere idea those claiming contentedness are still perusing audio forums gives me pause.

I have fed the LG 60 directly in my pre amp as well and it is a quality DAC.  Of course it’s hard to actually use the phone while being tethered, and as good as the DAC in the LG is it doesn’t compare to my regular DAC.

  My bigger issue with the LG 60 is its to light.  If I walk around with it using Bluetooth phones the physical motion causes the Bluetooth to disconnect, so I use wired phones.

@cakyol [

However, the aptx-hd codec with bluetooth sounds great to me already. And to top that, the LGv60 has already a great DAC in it which I sometimes feed DIRECTLY into my Freya from the LG's headphone output. To tell you the truth, at my age, I cannot quite detect the difference :-)

Well at the end of the day, if you're happy and content with your setup who are we to question or rain on your parade. After all, it is about enjoying the experience. Enjoy my friend!

Your experience is interesting indeed and will be helpful to some...

It is better to hear a message coming from more than one voice...

thanks for your generosity and understanding...

@mahgister I appreciate your thoughtfulness.

After taking a wonderful (to many, perhaps, humble) audio system from one home to another, with zero changes in gear in between, I was struck by the difference in sound quality.  Wow. What a difference.  Unfortunately, for the worse 🤣  My music sounded better in the old room.  Like, noticeably better.

I feel that your point about prioritizing room optimization in lieu of perpetual “upgrades” in electronics is valuable and helpful.  Arguably more substantial gains and almost always (depending on far one is willing to go in changing their listening room) far easier on the bank account.

For sure you are also right !

But being right dont means that the point about which i spoke is out of the way or annihilated...

Reality could be black and white and is also more complex...It is a journey....

My point is motivated by the marketing consumerism among some audiophiles about the gear upgrade obsession and the forgotten acoustic science...

I listen music now after a few years of searches for the right components ( it is hard when your budget is near zero) and after 2 years of acoustic experiments....

Now i am like you, music is my only expanse in money or in time....

But in the past I loved music so much i dream all my life to BUY a high-end system... But i cannot... Then i solve the problem in experimenting with acoustic and then i realize it is not necessary to buy costly gear if you find your way to acoustic... I created my homemade devices and my room now is no more my laboratory only but my listening room...

I am here only to help those who have not realized the importance of acoustic OVER costly upgrade and make them conscious that acoustic is the frustration remedy ...

Then you see two people can be right at the same time even if they see things from different perspective like you and me...

Or in one sentence, acoustic successful method transform my audiophile neurosis in a healthy interest for music listening only WITHOUT almost any audio/sound quality upgrade interest remaing now...

My best to you....

And i apologize for my "lecturing" tone...

My English is in reality Frenglish : a mediocre english style of writing.... 😁😊

i hope you will understand and forgive my "square" syntax...

But you are right here also i can be a bit "presumptuuous" yes....😁😊

But admit also that acoustic research in audiophile circles is not so well known or perceived so essential... People neurosis come from their gear focus...Then i "lecture" them for sure about acoustic ... i apologize to you...

@mahgister While I appreciate the lecture on reality, and the presumptuousness of my ignorance as to the importance of room acoustics, I would counter that it is pretty black and white.

You have people that enjoy listening to music, and then you have people with a deep concern for the fidelity of their playback. Sure, they enjoy listening to music too, but only after executing processes A, B, C, D, etc. When this series of processes is finally completed, they say, “…phew!! Okay, NOW, I can enjoy listening to music.” There is a stark difference in thinking and behavior there.

To quote Karen’s mom from Goodfellas: “normal people don’t act like this!”

@mahgister While I appreciate the lecture on reality, and the presumptuousness of my ignorance as to the importance of room acoustics, I would counter that it is pretty black and white.

You have people that enjoy listening to music, and then you have people with a deep concern for the fidelity of their playback.  Sure, they enjoy listening to music too, but only after executing processes A, B, C, D, etc.  When this series of processes is finally completed, they say, “…phew!! Okay, NOW, I can enjoy listening to music.” There is a stark difference in thinking and behavior there.

To quote Karen’s mom from Goodfellas: “normal people don’t act like this!”

@arafiq

Thanks for your comment.

However, the aptx-hd codec with bluetooth sounds great to me already. And to top that, the LGv60 has already a great DAC in it which I sometimes feed DIRECTLY into my Freya from the LG's headphone output. To tell you the truth, at my age, I cannot quite detect the difference :-)

With bluetooth, you're leaving so much on the table. The truth is that you don't even have to spend a lot to get significantly, and I mean SIGNIFICANTLY, better SQ than bluetooth can ever offer. As an example, an ifi Zen streamer for $399 will offer a substantial step up.

In few sentences:

The electronic design must be subordinated to the acoustic science and must serve the acoustic experience of the listener in his controlled room... ANY relatively good design will do the job...

In audio magazine review it is the reverse presentation: the acoustic of a room is secondary addition to the gear choice and even the music is there to make the system shine...And the costlier the design the better it is supposed to be nevermind the acoustic...

After all this brainwashing it is not suprizing that people confuse head and tail...

Some plunge into a neurosis :

« Is my gear system good enough? Probably not, then i must upgrade.... Is my upgrade piece compatible with this other one? because my sound is good for some music style but not for this other music style... Then i must change another piece of gear...Etc The infamous wheel of neurosis goes on this way » 😁😊

All that because they dont know because of the gear marketing programmation sellers faulty practice how to make ANY piece of gear at ANY price shine at his peak potential working level in a treated and controlled room....

The symptoms of this neurosis in all audio threads are debates about, cables, fuses, digital versus analog etc all debates divided in 2 warring camps : the gear brand name tasting "subjective" fetichists versus the "objective" measuring tool fetichists... Their common blind spot is a complete ignorance and forgetfulness of acoustic and psycho-acoustic HUGE role in the making of the final experience...

It is comical but dramatic because it guide people on erroneus paths...For sure there is difference between cables,fuses, or anything else but these differences are small one generally, compared to acoustic treatment impact and mechanical acoustic controls, and anyway sometimes these diffrences are not audible for acoustic reason...How do you hear subtle difference of timbre in a bad room ?

For sure there is a difference between a piece of design of low cost and a 100,000 bucks speakers...It goes without saying... 😁😊

But the main tool will ever be and will ever stay the acoustical tool not an upgrade.....Save if you upgrade to a completely NEW high level of price...If not, the difference will be a minute one compared to an improved acoustic...This is my point...

Acoustic is the sleeping princess, the pieces of gear are only the 7 working dwarves, and the kissing prince is the psycho-acoustic method which will awake the princess to be bride......

wow, so much snark on this site. 

I'm actually very happy for you. I have a mix of vintage Mac pieces and new stuff. Somehow it all works and I'm happy to listen to my talking heads. 

Remember, there is only two kinds of music: music you like and music you don't. 

Great to focus on gratitude of the sound we have achieved and the appreciation of it. Thanks for reminding us how good we have it at.

Good for you! It's all about finding something that makes you happy and allows you to enjoy your own music. 

You go and be happy! It's so counter-cultural.

Great posts!!

It's been said that as we get older we choose between the "scerinity," and "the hit".  Inner peace, or the next adrenaline rush.  Music can give us both (sometimes in the same piece).  I disagree, in principal, with the statement: "Audiophiles listen to equipment.  Not music."  I belive we drill down deeper into the music than most, listen to (and, for) subleties that would escape the perception of "the average listener".  We just need to have the discipline to turn off our inner audiophile and take in the masterpiece that's on full display in front of us.  I suspect that we've gotten pretty good at doing this.  Among other things.

So happy for cakyol for arriving in a good place.  Taking an active role in your system's development by designing and building your own power amp makes it that much better.  I designed and built my own speakers and I have to admit that some self-congratulatory moments occur when I'm listening.

Well done, sir.

You almost made it to the end...then....smooth jazz.....LOL

I take this hobby as a journey , when I see good price audio gear , cables etc and I can afford it, I buy it. I do get good result , without spending much. For those who are now content on what they have, congratulations. 

@tylermunns

I fell so far into the rabbit hole of audio, I had to dig myself to the other side. Thousands of dollars and countless tedium-addled hours later, I MIGHT finally be at where I used to be. I can’t say my quality of life improved choosing to indulge in such minutiae.

It’s reasonable to suspect that "upgrade-itis" is actually a word for audiophiles who are not confronting deeper psychological issues. In other words, it has much less to do with this hobby than they -- or we -- are courageous enough to admit. This theory, if true, lets a lot of hobbyists who like to keep working on their system off the hook. It de-pathologizes what is, in fact, just a freakin’ hobby.

I'm in a similar place.  I am extremely happy with my current setup, but have an itch to try some different cables, but honestly can't decide which cable or why I would want to spend a penny while I'm still enjoying my system so much.  For me, it was upgrading some power cords and interconnects that took my system to the next level and still has me intrigued almost daily.

Whatever trips your boat. I’m doing most of my listening lately on a lossless player built in a $70 tube preamp over a $315 140 wpc SS amp.

2022 prices.

Happy Happy.

Thanks for your comments.
Btw, as it was pointed out about bluetooth not being a resolving transmission method, both the Audioengine b1 and the v60 does support the aptx-hd codec and hence that is the reason i chose them. They sounded good enough to me and the convenience wireless provides is worth it. 

I love it when a plan comes together.  

That is awesome caklol. I actually believe that you are happy with the sound.

Why then are you so condescending to others who do not share your views, or believe they have made an improvement to their system?

Your advice to them is to "Go stand in the corner?"

Quite content here.