Magico speakers too clinical and fatiguing?

I've had A5s in my main system for about a year. PS Audio BHK 300 mono blocks for amplification. It's taken a lot of finicking to get them right but to me that's an appeal. I can get better sound with small adjustments in cables, placement etc. The biggest improvements for me have been new tubes in my amps and preamp and moving to a different room with better acoustics. They sound incredible and keep getting better as I refine the rig/room further. It's a journey for sure. 

Some people would love to have them just because they’re expensive. Personally, I think they are some of the best made speakers. With the exception of the M6s,  their built quality doesn’t translate into me liking any of the Magicos that I’ve listened to (S3s, S5s, S7s, M3s). I really like the M6s.

A lot of people would love to have them so apparently they are not too shabby. 

@hiendmmoe

That’s the problem because there is a lot of good music poorly recorded and it’s really nice to be able to comfortably listen to it. So this pure accuracy you speak about that magical magico has accomplished may not be the greatest for those who want to be comfortable listening to music.

And then to say that if you don't like how it sounds it's because you have done a poor job matching all the equipment to make it optimal is absurd.  It's a marketing gimmick because there are people out there not happy with it just because they don't own all the precise recommended components you need to make it work properly.  Gosh can you imagine sitting down for a really good meal and saying oh I don't like the main course because all the side dishes have impacted how it tastes to me - this would lead to mass starvation.

Hiendnmore Magico speakers are superb but you have to match them in the system. Nothing is automatic.Others heard them unmatched so their opinion will not be positive.

All the Magico haters seem to be out in force here. They can’t handle the fact that a speaker like any competent is supposed to add nothing to the sound. Magico corrects all the errors, or most of them, that other loudspeakers have. This intern gives the listener more or what the recording sounds like; a more accurate representation of that recording, good or bad. This is what most haters can’t handle. 

Magicos are revealing speakers, but that's not a bad thing! It's easy to make a Magico system sound warm by matching it with tubes or warm-sounding SS amplification or, if you're like me, using many analog sources.

IMO, better to have revealing speakers and tone it down with upstream equipment than to have a toned down speaker that isn't able to show when you make an equipment upgrade due to lack of resolution.

@aquint I respect your comment as Magicos maybe a good choice for a reviewer to evaluate most aspects of sound reproduction in testing of equipment.  As to listening for pleasure, I demure.  

I mentioned my dislike upon hearing so many of Magicos pre-A and M series speakers.  I never had this problem with Von Schweikert line of speakers from their inception to their current models at all price ranges.  I own the last model VR9 SE Mk2 upgraded.  The nine sophisticated controls on this speaker permit the speaker to be dialed into the room with the treble and mid-range being the more important sonic sectors for placement as the bass is fully adjustable.  My best friend's 3 way VR35 export is a simple speaker with no adjustments (designed to be placed 8" from the rear wall) sounds 75% or more like my speakers and functionally closer.  Are they "colored" speakers?   I would say they are accurate to the recording and never sterile unless the recording is.  With Magicos, I find that their utter neutrality can be a source for boredom.  Perhaps it is because I've heard so many demonstrations using inadequate or non-matching components, etc.  I've used 35 watt Class A/B tube amps to my current Class A Westminster Labs REI solid state amps to derive great pleasure from my speakers.  

In my living room, I have a pair of Legacy original Signature IIIs with rear firing tweeter.  Those speakers are not perfectly neutral either, but for some reason in my room, they are outstanding in capturing the emotion of the recording/performance combined with great dynamics and extended frequency response.  Those are cheap speakers compared to Magicos.  Another best friend is also a known reviewer who uses them for his many recording reviews and occasional equipment reviews on Positive Feedback.  (I have two best friends who are also best friends with each other).  

@aquint    +1   No drama just a great post!

If a speakers dynamics are limited adding power should fix that issue, once that's done then decide if you like the speakers.

@mtbiker29 

1) they are not fatiguing 

2) OP is not buying them, or any other speaker any time soon.  

A lot of what’s been posted on this thread isn’t wrong (the ad hominem stuff is) and it’s kind of reassuring that many people are hearing the same thing - they’re just placing a different value on what they’ve experienced and, yes, listening conditions (show/dealer vs. carefully calibrated listening room) and associated equipment matter a lot.

I’m one of those TAS writers that admires the brand. I’m currently experimenting with Atmos (for music) and own ten (!) Magicos (M2s, an S3 for the center channel), S1s, 4 A1s for the height channels, and an SSub.) Of course, most of my listening is in stereo and the M2s work very well for me. What some folks refer to as "clinical," I call "lean", in comparison to many of the excellent loudspeakers I’ve had in my room over the last 10 years. There’s loads of detail and dynamic nuance, as well as speed and a complete lack of coloration. As you might imagine, Magicos can be a great point of reference for a reviewer, both in terms of comparisons to other speakers and evaluating an electronic component preceding them in the listening chain. They sound terrific with "appropriately priced" amplification (that is, gear that’s in a particular Magico model’s price category) but even better with the most elite electronics. That’s a mark of a great design.

I’ve learned that many audiophiles want a speaker with "character" - either to better match other components in the chain, room issues, or just plain old personal preference. No loudspeaker is perfect but, for me, Magicos retrieve most of what’s on a recording, good, bad, or indifferent, and then get out of the way.

Andy Quint

The Absolute Sound

@emergingsoul 

Your results with Magico speakers will vary depending on amplifier synergy and Magico model designation.  In other words making assumptions that all Magico speakers sound bright and clinical with all amplifiers is not correct. 

I listened to the A3 model with beryllium tweeter during a long demo driven by a smooth high end Class D amplifier and the sound was very good.  Exceptional bass, smooth, clear midrange and treble, nothing overly bright or fatiguing.   

The lack of cabinet resonance takes some getting used to but once you hear what it offers a conventional MDF box speaker can sound colored and veiled in comparison.

Overall there are speakers that I prefer more than the A3 in its price range but it isn't caused by them sounding clinical of fatiguing.  

Another example was hearing the Magico S5 speakers at AXPONA audio show driven by Luxman mono blocks.  The sound overall was OK, loud and powerful but inorganic and un-natural. Poor system matching. 

The best I have heard Magico speakers sound was at a dealer in their showcase room featuring the model M2 speakers driven by a top of the line McIntosh system with two chassis tube preamp and 1KW mono blocks.  This system had the best sound of any system I have heard.  Incredibly clear and life like, literally extraordinary. No fatigue, clinical nature or excessive brightness at all. Too expensive for my budget but impressive sounding nonetheless.   

@fleschler I have the Von Schweikert Endeavor RE speakers. The less expensive walnut version (otherwise identical to the painted SE). I'm using them with a pair of REL S/510 subwoofers. The speakers are rated down to 28hz, but the subs do improve the overall sound. I'm quite happy with them. 

I've heard 17+ Magico speakers from Q, A and S series over the years.  The Q were the worst.  Their smaller speakers (monitors) sounded tiny (orchestra stuffed in a box with 300 watt/side monoblock SS amps).  

I prefer the Rockports, Legacy, Acora Acoustics and especially Von Schweikerts.  The VS speakers used are a bargain for sound.  Their latest Endeavor with a pair of V-12XS SHOCKWAVE subs for around $32K new will outdo many $100K speakers, especially in dispersion.   

@jond 

I don't think - although I can't know for sure - that the sound you heard was colored by CAT electronics to the extent of sounding 'chocolate-y' , unless someone was playing around with tubes.

I owned CAT electronics for many years, and colorations in the system you heard is not an inherent trait of the CAT 'house sound.' Their sound is closer to exactly 'neutral' not "yin" or "yang," although between the two, it would tilt towards Yang (infinitesimally bleached out).

I wonder what else in the system might have produced that. The front end, or the cabling, perhaps?

Definitely don't want to put big speakers in a small room. 

Erik_squires just touched on an important point with the use of tubes preamps will make a positive improvement for these particular speakers Further I don't think there is another component that will have as big an impact in your system than the preamp itself. 

Magico speakers too clinical and fatiguing?

No, I’ve demoed Magico at a few audio shows. It’s transparent of the other components up the audio chain. Strange that the OP would suggest clinical and fatiguing when Magico recognized at a top speaker company along with Wilson and MBL.

Are modern age speakers going nuts with all the science?

No - this is “high-end” audio where innovation for better sonics are the norm. That’s why many products are much more expensive than box store gear.

I’ve been to Magico headquarters/factory, it’s a major design manufacturing business with CNC machines, heavy computer modeling, etc - significant overhead that much be covered by sales in our niche market. That’s what drives the price up.

Less innovation is does not lead to lower priced components, nor change the fact you still can purchase less expensive lower tech products anyway

The OP hasn’t demoed the lastest Magico offerings, yet calls it “clinical and fatiguing” - this thread seems that the underlying intent is to simply be griping about perceived unaffordable high prices 

@erik_squires  back? Long time no see? 

@ozzy62 if something cost more, it should sound better. 

I just probably don't hear the difference with my dumb ears.

The set of audio products offered by manufacturers who employ "too much

science" is an empty set.  "Too much science " is a concept like "left over bacon:"

without any real world manifestation.

— Speakers technology changes. Component matching has never gone away.

— Horns go with tubes.

— My beef with Magico is that quality sound should not cost more than the
    GDP of Italy. Oy vey iz mir.

"(and also because my wife would poison and then shoot me if I spent Botswana’s national debt on speakers)"

FUNNY!! Love the idea of a 2-method murder ... only a seriously pissed off spouse needs two methods.

I have had Magic S7's driven by VAC amps and Preamps for 7 years. They have never been fatiguing in the least, even after 6-7 hours of listening.  We frequently have guests over for dinner and music and I have to drag them out of the room to get some sleep.  It seems that perhaps Magico speakers do best with tube amplification.  

Magico speakers are looking great but I’ve never been impressed how they sound especially in regards to their price. In last Munchen audio show, Joseph audio listening session was quite more impressive in term of reality and music imersion 

If a speaker is revealing like that...they will not only showcase the weakness in a bad recording....they will also highlight the weaknesses of your room, including any lack of symmetry or close reflections.  

I found the welcome back song fellas and it's a good one.

Diplo - Dance with me

https://youtu.be/1dJFk3PP6MY?si=5yC24WnOLiMvux-8

I wouldn’t call them scientific, but they do have their own sound in my mind. One of the best "scientific" attributes of Magico is the power response. The extremely wide and even dispersion makes these speakers throw an excellent image to a wide listening area.

At the same time, this means they need more room around them. Putting them in a cramped room is an absolute waste of money, IMHO, even for their smallest models.

From a tonal perspective, I find glass smooth but also a little cool on the top and (and I know everyone disagrees) I find them a little chesty. Female voices and piano registers to me have some extra resonance there.

Fatiguing though? Not when driven by excellent tube pres, which is the only way I’ve heard them.

Hey,  aren't you the guy who started an entire thread to announce that you will be gone to preserve your oh so delicate sensibilities until after the election? (a very high and mighty thread it was, if i vaguely recall)  Well, why are you back a month early??????? Bwaaaahaha... The election isn't even over yet dude. What's with this type of flipflopping? You say one thing (in a high and mighty fashion standing up on the pedestal)...and do another? Hey...not looking good

The problem here is that there are too many poor made records. Clean sounding speakers show the defects in the original record and often make it unlistenable. This is what some refer as "too accurate" or "clinical". The solution is - choose what you play wisely. This will cut off 98% of all records ever made, but remaining 2% will bring real enjoyment.

If you like the artist, you get the record.

Must be tough spinning 3 records from 3 mediocre artists on repeat all year long because it's the only 3 records that sounded stomachable on Alon's aluminum box...?

I wouldn’t call them scientific, but they do have their own sound in my mind. One of the best "scientific" attributes of Magico is the power response. The extremely wide and even dispersion makes these speakers throw an excellent image to a wide listening area.

At the same time, this means they need more room around them.  Putting them in a cramped room is an absolute waste of money, IMHO, even for their smallest models.

From a tonal perspective, I find glass smooth but also a little cool on the top and (and I know everyone disagrees) I find them a little chesty. Female voices and piano registers to me have some extra resonance there.

Fatiguing though? Not when driven by excellent tube pres, which is the only way I’ve heard them.

I heard a pair driven by a pair of ARC Reference tube amps and a Ref 6 preamp. I thought they sounded very good. They are not as "clinical" as Wilson Alexx Vs sounded to my ears. 

No, that is not the usual case, audio gear depends very much on the designer of your gear and your taste, some designers are just better than others.

A lot of the high end gear, you pay mostly for the box, not what is inside, especially big power amps weighing 30 kg up, it looks cool, but making a difference to the sound probably not.

@grislybutter 

You may like the sound of your system, and that’s a good thing.  But don’t fool yourself into believing it performs at a level of one consisting of high(er) quality components. I’m not saying $$ is always the answer, but most of the time you get what you pay for.

@dayglow I think I am the opposite of obsessed with the price. I am saying it's not about the price...

Magico, YG, etc. are for listeners who want the truth. The range of satisfaction may be greater with this level of gear, but when it's right, it's hard to surpass. I'll live with the flaws in recordings. It makes the good ones that much more enjoyable.

The problem here is that there are too many poor made records. Clean sounding speakers show the defects in the original record and often make it unlistenable. This is what some refer as "too accurate" or "clinical". The solution is - choose what you play wisely. This will cut off 98% of all records ever made, but remaining 2% will bring real enjoyment.

How can there be such a thing as a speaker that is too accurate? The goal of high end audio is to present the music exactly as it was performed/recorded. Of course this is never achieved in reality. At the end, we all have our personal bias as to what we want to hear. Like it or not, that is distortion.

No one here is really in pursuit of perfection. We want to hear our preferred version of deviation from reality. That is why so many spend large sums of money in pursuit of an unachievable goals. Me (not speaking for anyone else) have jumped off that wagon and convinced myself that at my skill and hearing level, I am happy with my modest system. It is so much better than what was available to me in the 70's that I no longer feel the need. Laves me a lot of disposable cash for other fun stuff.

Potentially, anything labeled accurate is not musical. What good is accuracy if there is no musical enjoyment in the listing room. Then you have to throw thousands more dollars to fix the problem. My test for musicality is if I find myself toe-taping. 

Try Vandersteen speakers

@grislybutter IMO you're overly obsessed with the cost of components. A HEA system consists of many components including the room. Focus on complete system synergy not just the cost of an individual component. The Magico A5 is potentially one of the best box speakers under $30k if implemented correctly.

@tdudnyk I can hear what you described on my system that cost a 10th of that. It's a myth that you have to spend 50K or 25K on just one component to get all that. But to each their own

@emergingsoul 

that is not what I meant. The A5 is insanely cheap for the performance it provides. But it needs very very expensive upstream gear to get there. The A5 sounded way better than a 125k speaker I auditioned earlier in the day from another dealer. I was always trained that you spend the of your budget on speakers. With Magico, that is reversed. You spend the bulk of your budget on electronics. Too bad they are too industrial looking to put in a living room environment. 

Magico are very good speakers they just need to be tone and match to your preference sound.

As an A1 owner, I can understand why people have this opinion but what others said are correct.  At first, I thought they were hard to listen to.  But the two things that fixed everything were amplifier and setup.  I changed to a Pass amp and then took more time to adjust the setup vs where I first placed them.  They are great speakers and sound super realistic.  For me, they sound like the true instrument.

@tdudnyk 

I think he means that you need to spend over $50,000 to get a quality sound from an overpriced speaker and that same quality sound was available for $25,000.  Depends on how well your Wallet leather is stretched and then $25,000 does not become very expensive for a set of speakers.  

The dealer was playing the stretch maneuver by only displaying the very expensive speakers.  Actually in hopes that when you choose a lesser speaker you won't feel so awful about spending a lot of money.

@tdudnyk 

could not believe what I was hearing in a 25K speaker

You mean that cheap or that expensive?

Last year I was shopping for new speakers and went to a dealer to hear the A3’s. He had the A5’s and played them for me with a VAC Sigma 170i amp. I liked the tone of the speakers but what really impressed me was the imaging. Maybe it had to do with the fact that the speakers were at least 6’ from the wall (which I couldn’t do at home), but it sounded like I was listening to a full band layered in 3D space that was as deep and 3D as a live band in real space, something I had never heard before from speakers. I would have bought the amp and speakers, but my wife didn’t like their appearance. I ended up with DeVore O96’s with a Leben CS600x integrated amp. A different sound, but a setup I’ve been very happy with.

With Magico, you don't listen to the speaker per se. They are so accurate and neutral, you listen straight through to the electronics. I heard a 25K A5 powered by a 100K amp/preamp/DAC rig (Essence amp + pre, Rossini Apex and Clock) and literally thought the singer was singing directly to me. I could not believe what I was hearing in a 25K speaker! The only knock on them is that they are made for dedicated listening rooms which few of us have. I say that because they are just too ugly/commercial looking to place in a living room. For this, I (and may wife) lean to Estelons and VIVID Giyas, but looks are subjective.