Solid state to tube

So now that I have this modwright 9.0 tube preamp and I am liking what I hear so far. I might keep my YBA 1 dual mono amp and since I have always wanted to own a Nelson Pass product I may look on the used market for a pair of older Aleph 60's and see how they sound

I too was a SS guy for decades. Then a buddy brought over a tube integrated for me to try. I knew in the first few seconds that the sonics killed my Yamaha A-S3000 integrated. I thought the Yamaha was the last amp I was ever going to buy.

The amount you need to spend on a tube amp is determined by how demanding your speakers are. If your speakers are really efficient you can do very well with a low power tube amp which are more affordable than higher powered amps.

I bought my speakers after a demo because I loved how they sounded. I didn’t think too closely about efficient and less efficient speakers. After hearing the tube amp in my rig, I realized that if I wanted my speakers to reach their potential using a tube amp, I needed a ton of power because they are very inefficient. I thought my new PrimaLuna EVO400 power amp would have sufficient power but after several months of listening and listening to another system with Magico speakers, I knew my speakers still didn’t have enough power driving them. I contacted an expert who recommended NAT Audio Generator 805 mono blocks. My speakers are very happy now and so am I!

You won’t regret the switch to tubes!

Tube preamp Solid state amp best combo JUMP ON IT ASAP!!!

 Modwright customer service is excellent. Congrats on your new pre.Enjoy

@ecpninja that's good.  I'd recommend following his advice him knowing the design and how different tubes respond.  Also good to see he recommended those particular rectifier tubes if you don't already have them installed now.  

They came with tubes installed I see some extra ones but not sure if they are good.

I aimed Dan  at modwright. Very impressed that he actually took the time to email back almost immediately. He mentioned a few tubes to try  here is what he said

"Hi, the SWL 9.0SE uses a 5AR4/GZ34 and two 5687's. Tung-Sol and Raytheon 5687's are some of the best. For the rectifier, a good Amperex, Brimar or other English GZ34 will sound best"

@ecpninja So I bought the modwright 9.0 and hooked it up.

First impression. Wow!!

Nice!  Did it come with the factory supplied tubes only, or any extra tubes passed along by the prior owner to try as well?

• Modwright: "Tube Complement: (2) 5687 driver tubes (may also use 7044/6900/7119 and equivalents)."

Some options to explore more later if desired.

So I bought the modwright 9.0 and hooked it up.

First impression. Wow!! I have been using the yba solid state pre and power through my reference 3a lintegrale but I always thought they lacked bass punch but the Soundstage and imaging is where they excelled.

I normally hook up my salksound SSM6's and they have better tighter bass.

With the modwright tube in the loop the reference 3a's sound much better better bass slam and same imaging.

I am liking very much what I hear.

Will try with my Salk's next.

tracks I used to test where

Dominique "Birds"

TIERNY Sutton :Big Yellow Taxi:

Yello "The Vanishing of Peter strong"

And of course Gordon Lightfoot "Early Morning Rain" 

please post back with your thoughts. good luck

I have decided to pickup a used Modwright 9.0 tube line stage to start. Will swap out my yba solid state pre and run the modwright with either my yba stereo amp or meitner mt101 mono blocks.

Thanks for all the great advice

My impression is the preamp is the most impactfull.  If I had only one tube component, this would be the one.

I will try a tube pre amp first and run it with my current YBA 1 solid state amp.

That is a good place to get your feet wet.

I have an Allnic L8000 DHT Pre.  The DHT sound is intoxicating.

@decooney 

I agree. I also have a tube amp and I switch between that and the SS every now and then, but the tube amp is used mostly for jazz and softer music.

I had it the other way too, SS pre and tube amp, and the tube amp softened the SS harshness. It's all trial and error. For me, tube pre and SS power amps work best with my setup 

ecpninja:     my system is listed here. Im a Modwright fan. In all my years Ive changed pre amps more than any other component. Going back Ive had Denon, Macintosh Conrad Johnson, Rogue, Marantz .... Years back I went to a SS Marantz Reference preamp, and while it was an impressive piece of gear that worked well, I found it lacking in the " engagement " factor. I sold it and picked up a Modwright SWL 9.0 and realized I would probably never be without tubes in my pre amp again. After a few years I sold that and moved up the Modwright chain to the LS100, where I remain happy to this day. Good luck with what ever path you choose, but my recommendation would be to start tube pre and SS amp.

I would start with a Rogue Cronus Magnum 3. It’s not the quietest of amps but it does all the things that tubes are known to do well. It may fall short of some other tube and SS amps in one area or another but it’s pretty darn good as a complete package. It is in an entirely different league from Rogue’s hybrid tube/classD amps, the latter of which just sound like mediocre SS. The CM is one of my all time favorite amps. It has a very forward midrange but not in the obnoxious glaring way, but in a sense that it makes you feel like a artist is there in the room with you for an intimate performance. You’d probably have to move up to low power 300B tubes to do any better in this regard. 

The CM is manual bias but the procedure is simple and doesn’t have to be performed often. Manual bias is also preferred by many designers as they claim it results in better sound quality and bias stability. 
 

@ecpninja, Reading there is no tube in your totaldac, and your plan to keep using your ss amplifer, seems to me you are in an ideal situation for a really good tube preamplifier if you want this type of sound.  What @yyman23 describes above was my experience too when I paired my own tube preamps with my former SS amps. 

You could try this for a good while and decide later if you still want to add tube amp(s) to your system.  May not be necessary, you might like this setup a lot. 

Hi winoguy. Interested th know what tube pre you settled with and what is your amplification?

What did you swap out the tube pre from

What was the most noticeable difference ss pre to tube pre?

^^^

  Glad to hear!

@winoguy17

I agree with you. I switched my SS pre amp to a tube one, and I love the result. In my system I get the lush, smooth tube sound, with the power and control of SS amps.

Totaldac is d1 core which is their entry level so no tube output stage. I see on totacdacs website that he connects dac direct to amp 

My current pre amp

Is the YBA Signature series

Does your TotalDAC model have a tube output stage?

I saw one model/version using 12au7 tubes, another with 6dj8's and another without tubes.

Interesting gear.

I just looked @ the Linear Tube Audio (LTA) site and their MZ2 model is sold out.

DeKay

The YBA model is a YBA1 high current it was 1 step below their top of line which at that time was the signature line.

I have decided on any tube pre amps but that 3k mark would still be my budget.

I didn't really have any short list for tube preamps.

I only really use a dedicated streamer

And dedicated dac. Apparently I have just been informed that my DAC has a great volume control and can act as a pre amp.

My DAC is a French mfg called TotalDAC

Is your budget for the preamp (only) still around $3K?

I looked up the input impedance of what I believe to be your SS power amps and they were in the 20K-27K range.

Both should mate fine with contemporary tube preamps, but it wouldn't hurt to throw out the model number of the preamp(s) you are seriously considering.

Never heard Meitner and the only YBA was an integrated amp a long time ago.

I did have a CD player and an integrated from YBA's super budget line (forget the name), but they were just OK and nothing like the YBA branded amp.

DeKay

Thanks for all the great help.

Based on what I have read here I might hold off on going to a tube power amp. I will try a tube pre amp first and run it with my current YBA 1 solid state amp.

I will also try with my Meitner mono blocks to see which I prefer.

I currently use a older YBA signature pre amp with seperate power supply I think when I purchased it back in 2002 it was 10k so I wonder at what price point I will need to be at to get a comparable tube pre

Quicksilver all the way. I love my Quicksilver Mid monos, and phono stage. 

Lastly:

I thought that this inexpensive/well reviewed ($1500 300B based DH/SET) amplifier might be a fun option, but  due to the size of your listening room I'm not certain if it would work.

I gathered that you would like to limit expenditures @ $3k or less.

In my opinion the difference between decent DH/SET and other designs (excluding a few OTL amps I've heard) is not subtle.

DeKay

Last up is a kit amp by Bottlehead (I've used their early inexpensive offerings for the past 20 years, thus the interest in this new product).

I was not aware of it until a recent "user" post that I read here on A'Gon.

If you are not interested in building a kit I think that they have someone (with a long standing positive reputation) mentioned in their forums/site who will do so.

DeKay

Second up is a very inexpensive preamp that is, IMO, a tube rollers dream (and/or nightmare depending upon the individual).

I have gobs of the various tubes it can use (all old production) so it would be a nice dream, and fun, for me.

https://www.musicalparadise.ca/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=103

DeKay

@ecpninja if you are more use to the type of drive your Meitner MTR-101 mono amps have now, and even though your speakers spec is 8ohm / 92db sensitivity, the room size and desired volume listening levels is a real factor to consider.  

Coming from your existing SS Mosfet amps, I could see why Will Vincent might lean you towards Mono amps instead of the ST70 stereo amp build he does.

If you go with Quicksilver and want more Transformer capability and drive, the Mono 60s, Monos 120s, or the latest QS Monos in order to run a wider array of output tubes ranging from low to higher power ranges, and different sound types.

If you want to start with your existing power amps and start by adding a tube preamp these are the less expensive models that interest me, and I've been using tube gear (predominantly) since the mid 70's.

I'm out of touch with auditioning recent models and my interest in these items is based solely upon numerous online reviews (including those by A'Gon members who's opinions I have come to trust over time).

First up is a combination head phone/speaker amp that can also be used as a line stage preamplifier.

If you search A'Gon there is a review/post of it comparing it to their much more expensive preamp (the poster owned/used both in their system).

DeKay

@charles1dad 

Thank you for the explanation. 
 

happy listening everyone !

Ron 

@thr1961 Based on this experience, I added an ARC preamp and power amp and am thrilled with the sound, even in these early days of tube burn-in. Of note, even my wife noticed the difference and she typically never hears the differebe hard for anyone not to notice the difference in my sound.

Yep! With that degree of change it’d be near impossible not to hear a difference. 😊

Congratulations. Nice move by you.

Charles

@ronboco 

Both tube and solid state amplifiers if push-pull can be either class A bias or class AB. If they are single ended circuits (Rather than push-pull) then they are pure class A by default. For example, all SET or SEP tube  amplifiers are exclusively pure class A circuits. First Watt has some solid state single ended class A amplifiers.

Charles

I just made the jump after years with solid state. I bought an ARC 3SE phono stage and immediately noticed the difference and the synergy with my turntable and the type of music I primarily play (1950s and 60s jazz.)

Based on this experience, I added an ARC preamp and power amp and am thrilled with the sound, even in these early days of tube burn-in. Of note, even my wife noticed the difference and she typically never hears the difference. 

@ronboco  Not the same.

How do the class A/B amps compare to tubes since they have some class A output like tubes do? 

If you want no tube hassles, go for a model that uses 300B’s.  The new Western Electrics come with a 5 year warranty.  They are $1,500 a pair, but well worth it IMO in terms of SQ.

@ecpninja

on the Reference 3a Speakers website they openly tout that their speakers are very easy to drive and tube amplifier friendly. In fact, two amplifiers that they recommend for use with their speakers (Listed on site) are lower powered tube amplifiers. Here’s an old post regarding your speakers.

I heard both speakers at the Stereophile show in 2002.
The distributor for Reference 3A A/Bed the speakers.
He was using Antique Sound Labs 845 tube amps and an Antique Sound tube preamp.

The Reference 3a da capo’s were nice sounding monitors.
But the l’integral nouveau are much better speakers.
The main difference was the l’integral nouveau were much more fuller sounding and the bass was superior then the da Capo’s.
The l’integral nouveau have a very smooth sound with a sweet midrange and the bass is great.
Those were one of my favorite speakers at the show that year.

Linear tube Audio all the way in this case for good value  to do the job well. Read their tech literature to see why. Ref 3a speakers are not all that tube friendly as they may seem on paper from what I have gathered over the years from owners. Results could vary widely with various tube amps.

@ghdprentice 

Thank you and likewise. You certainly have an audio system to be proud of and I’m sure does justice to your music reproduction.

Charles 

Have the speakers ever been recapped? If not, start there. 20 year old caps are well past their sell by date. Replace ALL with polypropylene or PTFE.

Going to a dealer is a waste of time as they do not have your speakers, cables, room or the rest of the system. You might hear differences, but they will likely not travel home.

If the speakers are ported, some tube amps may not mate well due to the impedance curve.

I’d add the VTA gear from Tubes4Hifi to the list....really excellent stuff that’s fairly affordable.

It's not really excellent stuff. See VTA M-125. People have all kinds of problems with them and have written after ZERO support from Tubes4FiHi. If you complain on their forum, they axe your account. A lot of their advice is just plain wrong!

@charlesrayhall 

👍👍.  Nice system as well. 

+1 on the Quicksilvers.

I have the mid mono monoblocks. They are wonderful and have no problem driving my 90db efficient KLH 5s to fairly high listening levels. They also worked very well with some Snell Towers I had before.

I find they have plenty of slam and in fact were better in this regard and have better bass than a Belles 150a power amp and a Luxman integrated that I previously owned...both with over 100W per channel solid state. It provides wonderful bank for the buck.

Also easy to try different tubes. Want slam...run KT88s.... want a lusher presentation,,,,run EL34s which is what they are voiced for. Also they are very well built and have been utterly reliable over the 5 years I have owned them which is more than I can say for some Cary and Audio Research gear I had.... albeit a long time ago. Some of the most musical amps I have owned in over 50 years in the hobby. They are keepers. BTW I also run a tube preamp, Conrad Johnson.

The Backert line of preamps are all absolute gems. They use two 12AU7 tubes which are auto biased . Tube rolling is easy and the results of rolling  with this preamp are palpable. Decware, despite the wait makes wonderful low power tube amps. Wyetech Labs is in the process of selling their remaining stock of ferociously incredible SET mono blocks due to the death of founder Roger Hebert. These are all tube based products very deserving of investigation.

@emrofsemanon - probably not.

I'd think you'd be the only one who could decide that as everybody else will have varying opinions which may or may not line up with your response. There are no 'absolutes'. 

Find someplace where you can listen to tube gear and bring along some music of various genres, and it should be a fun experiment....

I have been enjoying tubed integrated amplifiers and separates from Octave, Ayon, Audio Hungary, for many years now. I also have had in my stables SS integrated amplifiers and separates from Simaudio, McIntosh, Ayer, Bel Canto, Norma, and others over the years.

I have enjoyed each for their specific attributes, slam is not one of them (think the term in audio speak is a joke). I have only ever felt deprived of midrange using SS.  I like to accentuate the positives and I feel that depending on all the other components in the chain one needs to be careful in their foray into the tubed world. 

I would consider doing what I did transitioning from SS to tubes and others have recommended here, hybrid integrated or a tube pre with ss amplifier.

Just keep an open mind and you may need to try a few combinations of components before you find the synergy your are seeking.

Tubes vs SS, Ford vs Chevy...who cares it is what makes you happy! 

Again this comes down to the manufacturer.  Now all products provide the same sound quality.  You need to determine first the sound you are looking for.  There are many different tubes that all have different sound and there are different amp designs such as Class A, etc.  Your budget also have something to do with it.  

 As far as comparing SS to tubes, you will get similar answers on the differences here, but in reality, a good tube amp design will be equal to SS in terms of dynamics and slam.  Tubes in general can offer a longer decay of notes and more of a 3D soundstage that SS cannot provide.

You need to do your research and listen to different tube equipment and learn why they sound different.  There are plenty of custom designers around if you want to go that route also.

As far as reliability, sure there is heat but that is where the design comes into play.  Point-to-point wired?  Bias adjustments?  Tubes wear out sure - so do capacitors and resistors.  I do not agree with less bass impact comments.  It comes down to the tubes and the design.  SS has limitations that IMO compromise sound quality.  

Happy Listening.

Yes....tube pre with SS amp is your best sound IMHO.....Audio- gd tube pre with PT GaN 400 has my Pendragons swinging wildly. Love the combo.