Who positions their speakers straight ahead (zero tow in) and why.
I’ve been experimenting with toe in and tweeter position (inside v. outside) for my LRS and ProAC Studio 3 speakers. My listening position is about 8.5 feet from the speakers front surface.
In both cases I ended up with tweeters on the inside and zero toe in. I like the more immersive soundstage I get with zero toe in. I sacrifice a little of the lock in for the center image.
Zero toe in also makes my sweet spot for listening a little wider.
Sorry about the incorrect spelling and the missing question mark in the subject. I couldn’t edit the subject.
After an extended period of adjustments, my Revel Salon 2 speakers ended up being positioned pretty much straight forward in my room. Why? Because straight forward is the position where the speakers became "dialed-in." Meaning---the bass, imaging, focus, depth and soundstage was the most perfect overall in that position. Happy listening.
I have Sonus Faber Amati Traditional. The starting point is typically suggested to be to have the beams cross behind your head a foot or so. I started there. Then slowly over six months moved the toe in out to be more perpendicular until they were pointed straight out. In my room, this maintained the central image and opened up the soundstage with and depth until on some recordings the speakers disappear. The sound of playing a piano is linear across the soundstage (when recorded to be). So in my large room, this is the best positioning.
I've done both. With my Maggies, I have the tweets on the outside. I honestly din;t hear much difference regarding toe. Contrary to old wives tales, Maggie ribbons have excellent dispersion.
I had the LRS+ with no toe in and tweeters on the outside creating a huge soundstage. I have the Mofi Sourcepoint 8s pointed at my shoulders to get the best blend of soundstage and imaging.
I've use the straight-forward, no toe-in for my three front speakers when they were Revel Studio 2s and, now, with my KEF Blade 2 Metas. Both of these have quite flat off-axis FR.
My room is pretty good size, and I sit quite a ways away, so am not sure a straight on setup would work so well, but ya never know until you try.
The ideal setup is unique to every speaker, room, and system, so what works great for one situation may or may not for another. Experimentation recommended.
All other factors being equal, I have found that every speaker requires different (if any) toe-in. I have also occasionally experienced the need to change positioning based on a change in electronics .
I have 3 setups of highly different calibur. My main system with Vandersteen Quattro Woods, a second system with Vandersteen IICe, and a 3rd with older pioneer HPM60s. All of them face straight forward. My experience is that you can dial in the center image to be pinpoint with toe in but you lose a ton in terms of soundstage width and depth. I've tried it all different ways with all the speakers. No toe in for me
I have 1.7is w/ about 20-25 degree toe-in, tweeters inside in a fairly large room and the soundstage is pretty wide for me. I sit 9ft away and the sweet spot is about 5ft across. In my room, the soundstage varies from just the sweet spot to deep behind the speakers and a few feet wide of them ( speakers are 10ft apart), depending on the music. I’ve experimented with less toe-in to straight on; both sound good but I prefer the tighter sweetspot (no one else in the household can stay still and just listen enough for me to widen it)…BUT, I will try the incremental method again to see far wide I go and still keep the amazing detail.
I did for years until I learned about toe in. I have one pair of towers with no toe in and they sound good in a large open room. I toe in the other speakers I have in smaller rooms with more surface reductions. Adjusting speaker placement as needed and preferred is a fun part of this hobby in my experience.
Try this, Toe in the speaker one click,1/8 of an inch at a time on both speakers at a time, stop and listen, and you will notice the center will get better without losing soundstage. It should be very noticeable. You will get a sharp center, without losing soundstage on the side. The speaker will disappear from your room.
The formal answer is that toe in affects tweeter rolloff, the width of the sweet spot, the treble to midrange balance and early reflections. There's also the issue of some excellent tweeters may have resonances which completely vanish a little off axis.
Many speaker brands are designed to optimally perform with little or no toe-in. I include:
Magico
Focal
Revel
Magico and Revel in particular have great imaging across a wide listening area when placed with little toe-in and plenty of space to the sides and rear.
A little history may be helpful. In the last 30 years or so tweeter manufacturing has come a long long way. Cheap (< $50) tweeters often flat past 20 kHz, wide dispersion and low energy storage. In the old days this was the realm of exotics, and if you wanted to hear everything you needed to point the speaker right at your head.
A related issue IMHO is the tweeter height. Some speakers, like B&W, really should be listened to on mid-range height, not tweeter height. So in general the best listening position for many speakers in the 21st century is with little toe in and perhaps significantly below the tweeter's laser like axis.
Harbeth 40.2, backs against the wall and pointed straight ahead.These are a deep cabinet speaker and I just don't have room to pull out. I've always liked the sound from these speakers and haven't tried different arrangements except a little toe in. I find with no toe in the imaging is really good.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
