@brianlucey Thank you for sharing your thoughts/experience here. Are you saying the original master, if it’s in 16/44.1, sounds better than an upsampled version? Just wanted to clarify as that’s interesting. Also, on Qobuz I have no problem hearing the difference between 16/44.1 and hi res versions of the same songs and the differences are not subtle (at least in audiophile terms), and I suspect many others here would say the same. Would you then say we are the 1%. Thanks again for your thoughts.
Why Do ~You~ Still Play CDs?
I'm curious why you still play CDs in the age of streaming. I recently got back into CD listening and I'm curious if your reasons align with mine, which are:
- Enjoying the physical medium—the tactile nature of the case, the disc, the booklet, etc.
- Forcing myself to actually listen to an album, versus being easily distracted by an algorithm, or "what's next" in my playlist.
- Actually owning the music I purchase, versus being stuck with yet another monthly subscription.
Others?
157 responses Add your response
i’m a mastering engineer with 11 Grammy winning projects in my résumé and I work on every style for 25 years… Here’s the reality 16 bit 44.1 Audio (CD) is not in any practical way inferior to 24 bit 44.1 Audio or 24 96 or 192 for 99% of modern recordings and only 1% of us could tell 24 from 16 bit
The industries surrounding higher bit rates and higher sample rates, those are all bullshit… The best quality master is the one that was done in the mastering room, someone like Daniel Lenois did many amazing records using 16 bit DAT tape, for example streaming audio is very much inferior to 16 bit audio
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audio-b-dog What streamer were you using before the 280D? How much total do you have invested in your vinyl rig versus your streaming setup? Fair comparison? |
I recently purchased a Moon 280 D streamer. Bottom of the line for Moon's line, but I couldn't hear much of an improvement in more expensive streamers. I stream music much more than playing CDs on my McMormack universal disc player. When I do drop a CD into the McCormack I use the Moon streamer's D/A converter which is a bit livlier than the McCormack. I listen to vinyl, however, far more than I listen to digital. I have a VPI Prime Signature turntable and EMT HD 006 cartridge, which I run through an Audio Research PH-7. I mention these pieces of hardware because they are good solid equipment which lift the level of my vinyl albums far above digital. Analogue on my system is more immediate and detailed. I've had friends who are not audiophiles notice the difference even though they haven't developed a discerning ear. I listen to my Moon streamer to hear new artists or new albums. To discover what's going on in the musical world. Also to hear different classical artists playing pieces I own on vinyl and CDs. I often stream music I already have on CDs because streaming has higher digital samplings, up to 192 vs. 44.1 on CDs. The reason I still have CDs is because I literally can't give them away. I own about 1200 CDs and it's not worth selling them piecemeal. Too much time and effort for too little money. But almost all of my CDs can also be streamed. So, if somebody wants to take all my CDs plus the spinning rack they sit on, and lives in L.A., give me a holler. |
@agwca You might consider an Innuos Zen streamer. It’s a very good streamer but you can also load your CDs directly into it so all your music will be at your fingertips and thus will greatly help you declutter. Also their excellent Sense app will allow you to easily organize playlists and find new music, and I think it’s a great value used. Just one idea FWIW. https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650163113-innuos-zen-mk3-2tb/ |
"I did not know classical is you say dreadful on streaming? I listen to classical 50%. I have not heard classical on streaming even at axpona" I was being a bit provocative! If I pop into a HiFi store they can almost always find my classical 'test pieces' on a streaming service, but only in two-channel PCM form. Really, it is the organisation of the catalog that makes classical so challenging for most streaming services. It is done very well by Presto at www.prestomusic.com. There is an equivalent subscription service which allows downloads as well as streaming. I usually download as a prelude to ordering the silver disk, if I like the music and performance ... |
I’m surprised more haven’t said CD to avoid additional tech and screens in their listening rooms. Gen Y is now the biggest buyers of CD. For myself, it is so nice to enjoy that time away from phone/computer/tablet and just listen to music. I like to look at the booklet and lyrics on paper too. I’m a millennial fwiw. Too much tech all day for work. |
I almost didn’t post to this thread, but then I saw your message. "Univers Zero", you say?? An audiophile after my own heart! UZ is just one of dozens of "Rock in Opposition" and USSR artists that I’ve loved for decades, and which are mostly ignored by both Tidal and Qobuz. If you didn’t, like me, buy the Cuneiform CDs and LPs when you had the chance, or trade American albums for locally produced discs/disks with Euro & Soviet-bloc penpals in the 80s, your only online source today for those progressive-rock, jazz, and RIO releases is YouTube. But for me, the dealbreaker is that Tidal & Qobuz have a tendency to simply delete albums without warning. Admittedly, this is at least sometimes due to content-owner licensing issues, but regardless, I’ve been burnt too many times when I foolishly relied on a streaming service to make favorite albums available in perpetuity. And not just vintage Soviet-era European releases — Yoko Ono, Terry Riley, 1950s-60s academic electronic-music anthologies, and even Chick Corea, Sia (!), and Yes releases, have all vanished abruptly from my Tidal playlist during just the last few months. So that’s the reason why, despite streaming most of the time, physical media remains my preferred delivery mechanism. And — I hope you’re listening, Netflix — all of this applies to movies as well as audio albums. @simonmoon, if you’re a Univers Zero fan, you’ve got to also love Art Zoyd, right?
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Several reasons. I still like physical media. Living in LA, there are quite a few brick and mortar stores selling used CD's. And since I love a lot of obscure, avant-garde, progressive music, browsing Amoeba's, Counterpoint's, CD Trader's used avant-garde classical section, or jazz section, I will often come across a CD by a composer or artist I am not familiar with, that looks intriguing. So, I will usually take a chance and buy it, and often come across something truly brilliant. With streaming, I would have never have come across these sort of discoveries. I subscribe to Qobuz, which I like a lot. But they don't have everything by a composer or artist I may like. For example, I love a serial piece by composer, Ernst Krenek, called "Static and Ecstatic". Qobuz does not have it. I have a CD version recorded by the Cleveland Philharmonic, and an incredible vinyl recording by the LA Phil chamber orchestra. I am also a huge fan of an avant-garde prog band called Univers Zero from Belgium. They have 11 releases between 1977 and 2023. Qobuz only has 4, Tidal also has only 4. So, unless I have my CD and vinyl collection, I would be missing quite a few of my favorite recordings. |
It's still a fun way to explore music in a tactile sense. I don;t do vinyl but buy/sell it to help fund hobby. Next up will be streaming and probably hesitated to now for lack of understanding enough of the tech to make informed purchase decisions and also the time it may take to surf thru the music. Assuming a certain percentage of streamed music would appeal to me, I would need to have a way to select, organize and categorize an online library for future listening as I do not always remember the artist, album, music by name and would want to minimize searching of music I already selected that I like. That probably means choosing a streaming service in which I would plan or hope to have a long term relationship with. It would bother me to either lose music I like if the streaming svce decides to drop that music or loses the library settings, etc. Then there is the time to explore the offerings itself. I have kept what I consider the best albums I want to keep in my collection which is approximately 400+ cds at the moment. While I have decent equipment, I do not typically listen to music for hours on end. So there's the commitment to listening for enjoyment, relaxation, to energize, etc., Time becomes another factor in commitment. Other than that, who knows. maybe I would really like streaming especially for de-cluttering. But...I think I would always keep the CDs/SACDs that meant the most to me, so a combination perhaps?
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Several reasons I listen to CD's; I have a ton of them. I get very little time to listen so I maximize the time by not "fussing" with LP's. I have an eclectic taste (a kind word!). Most of what I listen to isn't on ANY streaming channels. I'm not even on any service nor do I have a streamer. I play my CD's in my van (Yes, I bought a 2019 Ford Transit with a CD player!). Also, CD's sound fantastic. If the audio gods are kind to me I'll step up to a Mola Mola DAC in the new year. (It's supposed to be as good as analogue). My two cents. Joe |
Lots of the reasons why I still listen to CDs have been mentioned here before. The same goes for the argument that with buying physical media artists actually get paid. It bugs me that with streaming the people paying (so to speak) for my convenience are the artists. They generally earn a pittance and money goes to the owners and stockholders of streaming companies. Spotify’s Daniel Ek is quite outspoken about the fact, that musicians are just content providers to him (which keep the business running that makes him even more rich.) Most of the artists I like have low streaming numbers. There is a lot of music that people used to happily buy in significant numbers, music that they only play from time to time, music that does not go into heavy rotation anywhere. In physical media times you could still survive like that, with streaming not. On top the popularity of streaming and the way it works (popular playlists, suggestion of similar music etc) brings about a certain blandness. It‘s tougher than before to do something new and daring and make a living from it. It‘s literally calculated what many people listen to (and what they watch). It‘s a bigger discussion but I feel this all need to be pointed out because there‘s not only our consumer side to consider. Having said that, I do stream from time to time, mostly to listen to newly released songs or stuff I don‘t know. Then I gladly buy the CD. |
I put off streaming for years. In 2018 I bought a Vault 2i and it changed my life. I had that for a few years and bought an Aurender. Qobuz and Tidal sound great, the amount of awesome new (and old) music I've discovered is insane. I recently bought the Teac 701t transport. My CDs have never sounded better. I like playing CDs , in many cases they sound better than a remastered stream. . I still play LPs too but streaming is so convenient and overall sounds so good I stream probably 70% of the time. Anyone firm on not streaming is missing a lot , for the price of a movie ticket or less. I like owning physical media, that will never change , but I only buy CDs that I like most tracks or you can't get on streaming platforms.
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When you're 90 and looking back you'll really be happy about everything you missed (!). Streaming has turned me on to a mountain of stuff I would have missed otherwise, and my large collection of CDs sound astonishingly good using a new CD player into a great DAC...vinyl can sound incredible including stuff I've owned since the 60s...it's called FUN. |
I play CDs all the time, in a way. It just so happens I rip and then I stream my CDs. I was introduced to streaming three years ago and took up Roon about two years ago. I have no interest whatsoever in playing a CD physically if can help it. The nearest equivalent is my Ayre DX-5 DSD player and I find it a huge pain to look through my alphabetized collection to find the one or two that I have decided to play. I have a large vinyl collection and I had my B&O Beogram 4004 turntable completely restored last year and yet I rarely play it because I find it a chore to go through the ritual so many seem to enjoy. . Streaming has spoiled me, there’s no doubt of that! I play my vinyl just enough to keep everything moving. And that is even though I enjoy listening to vinyl for a change. I wish a record cleaner wasn’t so darn expensive. I don’t have a Degritter or a Kirmuss and it pains me greatly to play a record that hasn’t been cleaned properly.
For those who like rituals, there is a ritual associated with streaming, but it’s 100% a comfortable armchair or sofa process. I interact with a Roon app and I enjoy the ritual of ripping my CDs and tweaking the metadata just the way I like it. I thoroughly enjoy the ritual of strolling through my albums either deliberately to find something in particular or just browsing, as you might in the old days in a Tower records store (and I do so miss Tower Records and their counterparts.). It’s so easy and so enjoyable to browse because the album art is presented so nicely and I often wind up playing something I wouldn’t otherwise have thought of. I enjoy everything about streaming. Try it! You might like it as much as I do.
One more thing to mention… I still buy a lot of CDs but I buy used 99% of the time because they only have to work just once to be ripped. That saves lots of money. I do typically look for used labeled excellent or very good just because I want a decent used copy in case I ever decide to liquidate. |
Classical music is a dreadful fit on most streaming services. Classical does not comprise songs and albums, nor is it driven by artists. Most classical stuff comprises works written by composers. Works usually have several movements. Before Presto started streaming classical, we had Primephonic (I think) which was bought by Apple and promptly shut down. CDs were outclassed by SACD about 25 years ago. I don’t know any streaming service which even matches 5.1 channel DSD. I still buy lots of SACDs and CDs where there is no SACD version. If there is a high-res download (not stream!) I will consider this. I buy 4k Blu-ray disks because streaming simply cannot match the bandwidth. My disks are always available!
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@Lalitk +1 The sound quality coming from a CD player is the sum of all its internal component... physical transport, streamer, and DAC (as well as its power supply, internal design, case... etc). The quality of streaming is the quality of the streamer and your DAC. Assuming we are talking about a very good streamer, it will isolate you from network noise (if not then this can be an additional variable). So, to make a valid comparison you have to have all the components the same level of sound quality. Difficult for most. I have had a number of CD players, DACs, and streamers over time. Currently I have a great CD Player / DAC (functioning as both... great for comparisons) and streamer (which has internal memory for ripped CDs). I have compared a number of albums which were the same recording and mastering. The short story is the CD, internally stored files, and streaming sounds the same. So, just as in comparing vinyl, the sound quality is dependent on the equipment you are using, not on the media. There is an additional variable thrown in to vinyl, the pressing number as unlike digital where each recording is the same analog is not. But typically this is not a huge difference. |
Why Not At ATOMIC Records, California they have thousands of CDs all in very good to excellent shape some still in their original wrappers - at the most 4.99 with many and I mean many for .99 cents. I buy the .99 cent one's for their case alone, to replace the cases I break. And I have the tendency to break/crack the cases. So there you have it. Cheap prices, great condition what more can I ask for. Ok OK so I am cheap wish they were for free - Have an awesome Holiday.
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@condosound Yes you do, you just don’t know it yet. Once you get to explore limitless amounts of awesome new music (and much of it in hi res BTW), playing familiar stuff over and over again becomes an antiquated and ridiculous notion. I discover wonderful new music almost daily and as a result am having more fun as an audiophile and music lover than I ever have in my life, and it’s so interesting and exciting I rarely spin a CD anymore. Once you start streaming you’ll never go back. My only regret about streaming is that I didn’t start sooner. Continue to ignore streaming at your own peril. There are worlds of incredible new music out there just waiting for you to explore, enjoy, and to greatly expand your horizons.
That’s absolutely not true at all. A well-constructed streaming setup will match and potentially surpass CD, and streaming offers thousands of hi res recordings you can’t get with CD
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“the shortest signal path is the best” Since you asked…… The “shortest signal path is best” principle originates from the analog era, where every additional connection or component introduced potential for signal degradation, noise, and distortion. This was especially true for fragile analog signals, where maintaining purity was paramount. In the digital realm, however, the game changes. Digital signals are far more robust over distance because they are transmitted as data packets, which can be error-checked, corrected, and reclocked to ensure integrity. A digital signal traveling halfway around the planet via fiber optics or Ethernet can arrive virtually unaltered, assuming the network and equipment are high-quality. This is why streaming, when done right, can rival or surpass traditional physical media playback. That said, the transition from digital to analog still matters. The quality of the DAC, power supplies, and even the local signal path in your playback chain remains critical. Audiophiles who value the shortest signal path may need to reconcile their beliefs with the fact that in the digital domain, distance and path length are less of a concern than implementation and system design. Hope this helps! |
@nonoise audiophiles are not necessarily engineers so good luck with that science thing!! We just know….. what sounds good better than the average bear. That’s pretty much it. |
To all the audiophiles who have for decades touted that the shortest signal path is the best so many times that it's become conventional wisdom, how do you reconcile that with a signal that can (theoretically) be transmitted halfway around the planet sounding as pure and to be as intact as one that travels, say, a foot and a half? Just asking. All the best, |
I'm old guy who grew up on CD, vinyl, cassette tape, 8 track and reel-to-reel. When CD arrived, I found myself using my turn table less and less, so, eventually, I got rid of it (and everything else), and stuck with playing CD exclusively. Why, because CD sounded so wonderful, and I no longer had to deal with the hassles of owning a turn table. When streaming music advanced to the point where it's sound quality rose to the level of CD quality and beyond, I found myself using my CD player less and less, so, eventually, I got rid of my CD player, for the same reasons that I gave up vinyl for CD. And, I've never been happier!!! Happy listening. |
@jayctoy That’s just bogus and your friend has no idea what he’s talking about. If your streaming doesn’t sound as good as CDs it’s because there’s something in your streaming setup holding you back. It’s well worth the effort to find out what that is and fix it. |
It’s hard to compare cds and streaming because of variables on every set up. Let say I brought my SA10 to my friend house . Obviously his streamer is already matching his system, my player will need acclimation time to perform its best.The the price between the sa10 and the streaming set up. Because of this the argument will not end. On my end I heard good streaming set up as well cd players set up.Both set up are good if done right. |
I still enjoy listening to CDs because I still collect them. However, I'm more selective in what I buy in vinyl or CD format for my music collection these days and focus on specific artists rather than genres or simply collecting a vast amount of physical music formats. I have CDs that aren't available on streaming platforms and the SQ, as others have mentioned, tends to be better on CD than streaming. I enjoy looking at the album art and the value to $ ratio tends to be better than vinyl in many cases. There are also some artists that I listen to that have CD-only releases as well. I bought a mid-fi CD transport a few years ago after having been digital-only for years and rediscovered stuff in my CD collection that I hadn't listened to in ages. CDs I didn't really want anymore I re-ripped as FLAC for my digital library and I plan to trade those in at a local store for credit so I can buy more music. |
The better my system gets, the better Redbook CDs sound... Having watch the development of the digital-sound market for 15+ years, I prefer the relative simplicity and SQ of CDs and LPs. Compared to streaming, CDs tend to have equal or better SQ, are less complicated, are more reliable, and have no monthly fee attached. While not on par with high-SQ LPs, CDs can sound great (ex. Sam Sklair's Virgo on VTL). Moreover, I find a Class-A CD player much preferable to the 4, 5, or 6 boxes that most HiFi streaming systems employ. Finally, each week multiple AG members initiate threads asking for help with their unreliable content-provider(s) or streaming gear - which keeps me playing CDs!
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I do stream but I still like the tube sound of cd. Primaluna and old carver sda 490t rebuilt by rowland, bat vk 5sd,shanling cdt100,but my favorite mcintosh mcd12000.it is a time and place in life of hard work paying off the journey of thrift stores to find a cd and the mesolimbic system of the brain and chemicals it sends out.enjoy the music and life.stay healthy |
Thank you @soix! That's what I'm hoping my Hermes will do. I have about ~20 hrs of play time on Hermes so I haven't sat down for a critical audition to see the difference. Ran into my slight noise/distortion issue which I am dealing with as you know...But I'm going to let her play all day tomorrow and then sit down tomorrow night hoping to hear the difference (with no distortion on certain tracks). I'm hoping bypassing Symphony with USB direct to Hermes will do the trick as I only noticed the distortion on certain tracks while streaming...
That said I will always LOVE my CD's... |
“cds sound better than streaming” That statement has little to no merits. So many variables one must take into account…is it due to medium itself or playback equipment or laziness on someone’s part to setup a good streaming system. Even an identical album would sound different through Vinyl and CD’s, then why consistently ding Streaming. The only knock on Streaming should be the ‘unknown provenance’ of recording being streamed and secondly, artists are not being compensated appropriately, IMHO. Streaming, when done right, can indeed rival or even surpass physical media. I listen to CD’s, Streaming and Vinyl. You’re welcome to bring your best SACD/CD’s for a chance to hear how good streaming can sound :-) |
Listening to music at home on a great system is a wonderful experience. But it is still a substitute for a live performance where all the musicians are sharing same space with you.. Physical media does provide a gradient where you do have something in between the live performance and enjoying the presence of music at home -- a tangible element to hold in your hand(s) that represents a reasonable facsimile of the actual performance. While an electron microscope won't let you see all the musicians that performed on the CD, the CD does allow to you physically attach yourself to musical genius, a piece of cultural history, or something that fully resonates with you. Or, perhaps those you shared the experience with who are no longer with you? Liner notes elevate the emotional attachment to this phenomenon even further. Life is full of successes and failures. A broad CD (or vinyl) collection validates the good decisions you've made in life. Their mere presence at this time is a validation of the good choices you've made along the way. Things have come and gone, but those CDs are still there, ready to bring you pleasure on demand in a moment's notice. And, finally, each CD in the collection represents a chuck of your life where there you were, standing over that CD bin looking for that target CD, or just shopping to find that hidden gem that would be special to you -- even if it's not on the Top Albums list of <fill in the year here>. Standing at a distance and glancing at your CD collection (displayed in your storage system of choice) is not just looking at your CD collection. It's a view of your life. Yes, streaming gets you from 0-60 quicker. But, as they say: "It's not the destination. It's the journey." |
