Beware - FedEx Drivers are forging signatures for delivery confirmation

It still blows my mind that someone on here is trying to characterize forging signatures as “really good service”.   SMH.  

@onhwy61 maybe McDonald's should charge for insurance to guarantee you meal it correct.

I stand corrected regarding UPS drivers' income.

Decades ago I was at a conference where an exec from McDonald's gave a talk about customer service.  He stated that if McDonald's was 99% accurate in completing customer orders that meant 100,000 per day did not get their order correctly filled.  He then stated that to get the accuracy up to 99.9% would require someone to directly oversee and check the order taker and another person to oversee the food server plus adding another level of oversight with someone checking the checkers.  The majority of the cost of the added personnel would be added to the customers' food price.  Additionally, with the added check and oversight procedures customer wait times would increase and fast food would become less fast.

The exec's point was that you don't even want to be perfect.  Instead aim for being really good.  There will always be friction in the system/process.  For that 1% whose orders were screwed up and comeback to complain, just give them a free meal voucher.

How much would shipping cost if UPS, FedEx and any other shipper provided a perfect level of service and who would be willing to pay for it?

With the 2023 UPS contract, Fedex is clearly behind UPS in salary/benefits packages, but a full-time driver, with the overtime they work, will easily break the $100K/yr mark.    USPS is another story altogether.    
 

FedEx actually has three distinct delivery arms — express, ground, and freight. Express and Freight drivers work directly for FedEx and receive the company’s typical employee benefits, whereas Ground drivers usually work for third-party delivery businesses that contract with FedEx, so their pay and benefits are determined by their employer.

@onhwy61 that’s the silliest post I’ve seen on here in quite awhile.   I’m one of those people who acknowledges that expecting perfect service from shippers (and many other service providers) is a lost cause and not realistic.    This topic is about Fedex (and others) fraudulently forging signatures on carriage contracts (and related stories of similar unauthorized, unacceptable, and sometimes even illegal behavior).

And, the 2023 UPS contract takes full-time drivers to $101,920 by year after next WITHOUT ANY OVERTIME.    With the overtime that every single full-time driver works, they are in the $170K+/yr range.    I can send the link to their Teamsters contract if you’d like.   And see USA Today article from August 2023 entitled “Full-time UPS drivers will earn $170,000 a year, on average, in new contract, CEO says”  for other contract details. (https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2023/08/10/ups-driver-pay-new-contract/70571518007/)

This just happened to me right now with Fedex!!

No doorbell rang as i was sitting right there in the living room on an item that required my signature. I would have taken a video of the outside package and have him mark "damaged" on the packaging before his ass left.

But, the li’l weasel has very quietly slipped it on my driveway and left.

Fingers crossed...nothing broke on the inside

For anything of major value, I always have FEDex or UPS hold at one of their locations. I try to avoid the USPS for expensive items. By looking at this site, one would think the USPS is a giant crime ring

https://postalemployeenetwork.com/news/category/postal-crime/

Love hearing the stories of FedEx from those in the know. I knew someone who worked as a FedEx mechanic back in the ’80s in a leased building on Van Nuys Airport property. Everyone loved working there at the time. Great salary and benefits, opportunities to advance, and one could transfer to any location in the country on their dime, even in advance, to set things up and they paid for the expense of moving and helped in scouting a new home. It was one, big happy company.

Man, how times have changed, for the worse.

All the best,
Nonoise

@limomangus gives some insight into how claims are processed and how should the average Joe go about insuring high $$$ audio gear? (Or anything that is expensive)

You think this is new...it's crime,happens in every business..I worked for the claim dept in UPS..

@invalid , @sns . That is the argument they’ve been using since the beginning of their problems - that they are an "express delivery company," with "express drivers," and not a "ground delivery company."

Uber, Lyft, et al. use the same argument in their battles (with mixed results). They claim they are a technology company that CONNECTS riders and drivers through their app - not a transportation company, so what the drivers are doing is not in their "usual course of business," (one of the key concepts). What they did, though, is stall around with all the states knowing that when they had enough drivers and users, THEY would turn into their army to pressure states to change their thinking, and it has worked in many states.

Amazon learned from Fedex’s mistakes. From the beginning, they "tricked" (in my view) many employees (and non-employees) to "start their own lucrative business" as delivery services for Amazon. They had them start separate delivery companies, hire drivers (who, by the way are trained by Amazon) to contract SOLELY with Amazon, and one of the conditions of the contract was that they must treat all drivers as employees. That way, if there are any labor issues, including unemployment claims, it’s the delivery company on the hook.

There are efforts by some drivers to make the delivery companies and Amazon JOINT employers, but that’s a tough haul.  Also note that the above applies to the people driving the blue trucks.  Amazon also utilizes "independent contractors" similar to DoorDash, etc., they call Amazon Flex.  They are the ones that drive their own cars and do "last minute deliveries," etc. outside the normally scheduled blue truck drivers.

Thank you @wtyamamoto for the detailed explanation. Fedex Express is an entirely different operation from the ground/home operation. The drivers on our route are all extremely young and they absolutely hustle, never have the time to relax and chat for a bit. UPS, Fedex Express and various freight company employees far more relaxed and have time to converse.

@wtyamamoto you are correct on the express drivers, a friend of mine worked directly for FedEx as an express driver. His job didn't seem that different from FedEx ground, other than he was working directly for FedEx.

Worked for Fedex in various capacities  for 20 years. Retired in 2004. Back when I started in 1984 Fedex standards were very high. Over  the span of years I could see the decline in the type of workers willing to do the work in a professional manner. It was harder and harder to find good people. The biggest problem. Drugs. You could not have a drug conviction on your record. These days they hire almost anyone willing to work or are able to pass the courier test. Even after attending courier school they still failed. Falsifying any document or signature was a termination offense or finding drugs in your system. The best way to handle a courier issue is to call the shipper and have them deal with customer service. Most of the time when you call customer  service you get a non native English speaker. That wasn't the case in my day. 

Regarding the debate as to whether Fedex drivers are Fedex employees or independent contractors, they are NOT Fedex employees.  I work for a state Department of Labor that was tied up for years with the issue.  Amazon has now been using the same strategy, and here is the history.  Note that the EXPRESS drivers remain direct Fedex employees as far as I know, so this only affects the Ground/Home drivers.

Fedex began treating Ground drivers as independent contractors (there was no Fedex Home at the time).  After a time, some sued to be employees and some applied for unemployment (when needed).  A lot of states started saying they were employees, and Fedex started losing quite a bit.

Their next strategy was to tell groups of them to form partnerships (or multi-member LLCs), such that they tried to say the "companies" was not reliant on single routes for revenue.  In the case where one person lost his/her route, the "company" continued to earn revenue.  They still lost here and there because of a concept called "setting aside the entity."  In other words, sole-proprietorships under tax and torte law make the individual and company one and the same, so it's easy to "set the entity aside" and say the person is working for Fedex.  A partnership is kind of like multiple sole-proprietorships stuck together (setting aside "joint ventures").

Fedex then told these people, operating as multi-member LLCs/partnerships to form CORPORATIONS.  As a corporation, it is a completely separate entity from the individual, so anyone working for the corp is technically an employee of the corp, including officers (who in this case would likely be the only shareholders as well).  As employees of the corp, their wages are reported by the corp for income, unemployment, etc. taxes.  One of the catches of that, though, is that in most states, as officers of the corp, they will be unlikely to receive unemployment benefits.

Unlike dealing with a sole-prop or partnership, where the company and person is the same, a corporation is a whole different beast, tax wise and torte wise, which is what gives it the extra protective aspects because of that separation.  It's easier for the IRS, etc., to say "this person(s)," operating as "this company(ies)" is/are your employees because the business can be construed as a person.  A corp, because by nature is "SEPARATE" from the person cannot be considered the same.

Now they win.

I just had a FedEx delivery for a new office/computer chair and it went flawlessly. Big box, 35# chair, up on the 2nd floor and I sat at my computer not 20' from an open door and didn't hear a thing. He even cleared the front security gate without having to ring me to let him in (those with regular routes know the codes).

It came from NY in 4 days and I live in a dense city. I've had hit and miss with them but it's mostly been hits. Same goes for UPS and USPS. 

All the best,
Nonoise

Really don't think anything went on, that old bat could have been Abe Lincoln's prom date.

don't let my mind going @thecarpathian what FedEx guy was doing inside. I would not want to arrive the time he exits my house when my wife is home 

They have been doing this ever since Covid. If you are really worried about a packages security, you must opt to have it held for pickup at a Fed Ex location/store. 

Don't even get get me started on Kilimanjaro!

What I meant, smart apple, is if you're in or in close proximity to a major city, service is probably much worse than in a laid back, less stress rural setting where time is not such a constraint.

Example; Setting- Ritzy, ocean front private community in Connecticut I was in and witnessed with my own eyeballs yesterday. FedEx guy pulls up to house with two big boxes. Knocks on door and is greeted by an elderly lady. She says hello to him by name, they chat a bit, and he brings the boxes inside for her. Comes back out a couple minutes later, with the lady smiling and waving as he drives away. Try getting that kind of service on Mount Whitney! She probably gave him a hundred dollar bill, but that's beside the point.

@thecarpathian yes, on Mount Whitney, UPS absolutely sucks! 

@sns they are not all paid a low wage, I know a few different people that work for FEDEX and they make decent money. I guess it's just how greedy the subcontractor is. 

I'll assume this issue mostly with Fedex home delivery. These are contract workers, poorly compensated, need to work at max speed to earn a livable wage. I work in family business, we get Fedex home deliveries on daily basis, these contract workers are simply considered consumables, out with the exhausted in with the fresh and soon to be exhausted. Most of these route drivers don't last more than a couple months, you think they care about your issues!

@tooblue ,

All in good fun, man!

I imagine geography has a lot to do with the quality of service.

Call the Fed-X number and talk to corporate. They take complaints like this seriously, though not seriously enough to reimburse you, of course!. Also, follow up with an email detailing the issue and that you accept no liability for packages left on your doorstep that were supposedly signed for. I always request that people ship to me by UPS or USPS. Fed-X drivers are subcontractors paid by the piece. PS: You are financially responsible for any package stolen from your door. Yes, it's happened to me and, yes, it was Fed-X.

A further thought.  I am certain that the business model of UPS/Fedex, which even obvious shipping damages is caused by the shipper, to deny, deny and deny insurance claims.  Honestly, there ought to be a law protecting consumers from this fraudulent and routine business practice.  If your auto insurer routinely denied legitimate claims, they would be in deep legal trouble. 

I have a new preamp arriving tomorrow and I always have it left at a Fedex office and pick it up there.  Always, for the reasons noted above. 

The sense of entitlement express here is off the charts.  Delivery drivers (UPS, Amazon, FedEx, etc.) are not highly compensated jobs, yet you people seem to think you can use them to send very valuable goods anywhere in the world.  Most of the time it works, but sometimes it won't.  Think of it as the cost of doing business.  In the long run the public gets what it pays for.

Entitlement??? The "entitlement" is in this ridiculous post. They signed up to do the job. Period. Lazy, entitled slobs are the bane of modern society. Don't like your job? Then quit. Half assing it is defrauding your employer and customers. Low character excuses and amoral platitudes don't excuse the behavior, they just paint a better picture of the individual.

Well we can beeatch & moan all we want but until we band together & actually do something about it will only remain the same or get even worse...
 SOOoooooo,who here is the legal beagle that will get the MULTI BILLION $ Class Action Law Suit filed against USPS/UPS & Fed Ex???

@awboat I agree, I can't believe one post included UPS drivers don't get well compensated. I went to a Van Halen concert with my brother-in-law that worked for UPS and we seen a UPS truck go by, he said that guy was making well over 6 figures, and that was 15 years ago.

Sounds like most packages are left very near or at your destination. Your are lucky. Ours are delivered all over the place: different house numbers, different streets, different neighborhoods!  We always get pictures of delivery but they never match ours.  Most recent was at someone's back door inside their walled off patio.  Had to trespass to enter.  We have a red front door (instructions to only deliver there, and a big "deliver to front door only" sign.  Installed after driver left 50K item out back (signature required), outside on top of ground cover with working sprinkler underneath.  We did not discover item until 48 hours later because seldom exit that way.  Unfortunately the shipper suffers by refunding money or reshipping.  Doubt things will improve.

I’d agree with you, but I have no idea what xe is. I’ve been kept inside a lot.

also, I do not want any xe avocados. Boys or girls only!

@grislybutter ,

I don’t mind as long as those avocados got here legally, and didn’t try to sneak their delicious, green skinned little butts over by floating across the Rio Grande!

Great, now I’m hungry for guacamole...

I just got one from the USPS saying I wasn’t home when she came by.  Not only was I there, but I have two cameras aimed at my front door and there was nothing!

The only reasons I can think of is they are on such tight schedules ( like FedX or UPS ) they are just plain lazy!

1500 new driver candidates just became available.

Things will only get worse.

@thecarpathian yeah, but it's not all about the prices, you know, when a little extra for avocado will buy us freedom.

Fed ex dropped my package so hard the amplifier transformer is off its mounting place i hope I can fix it

@thecarpathian I can't stop laughing over the line, at least the prices were happy. Thank you for my morning tickle. Enjoy the music

UPS drivers are well compensated. And I know our driver, he is a neighbor, well two hollers over. He is good friends with the folks that hunt on our property. When we are gone he will keep tabs on our house. My dog loves him. 

 

Left my Mac Mini on the porch despite required sig

Things are getting worse and worse these days!

just wait until tomorrow, today will seem fine then

I am fortunate and know both my UPS & FedEx drivers. They do good work, and yes, have way more deliveries than they should each day. Even though, when it is a very expensive item I have found having the delivery sent to a corporate store to be held has always worked out. Not so much when you have it delivered to a Walgreens or CVS shipping site.

I've experienced this any number of times over the years, not consistent in my experience, some drivers have left notifications. I assume it would be difficult to prove driver forged your signature as whenever I sign on their computer screen looks like chicken scratch, no way that replicates my actual signature.

Same here with expensive cables.  

"The sense of entitlement express here is off the charts.  Delivery drivers (UPS, Amazon, FedEx, etc.) are not highly compensated jobs, yet you people seem to think you can use them to send very valuable goods anywhere in the world.  Most of the time it works, but sometimes it won't.  Think of it as the cost of doing business.  In the long run the public gets what it pays for."

Why is this entitlement to expect a company to do the job you pay them to do? It's pretty simple, we pay them to deliver a package and get a signature as an added service that we also pay extra for (not to mention they require it on their side once the value is above a certain dollar amount). I get what your are saying but when shipping costs are out of control as it is, this is not about entitlement. 

 This is a USPS experience ... Recently sent a package to my brother in NV, Im in NY.  Package was insured with signature required. When I checked tracking it said it was delivered and signed for by my brother .The name was misspelled on the signature ! Needless to say , he never got the package. When I went to the PO to complain that my brother never signed or received the package, I was told that since Covid, drivers have the option to sign for the recipient ! I asked why I was charged for signature confirmation ,they said that's a good question ! You pay your money and you take your chances ...

Same thing happened to me with a Mcintosh amp, in a Mcintosh box! The idiot left it on the curb. Luckily I got an email that my package was delivered and ran outside before somebody could take it. I sent a scathing report and survey to FedEx, but so far I’ve only heard crickets. 
 

I guess I’m back to UPS, but they’re not much better…