Not trying to be critical but IMO USB is not the route that would yield the best sound. Many people using their computer for an audio source or a streamer with USB out but it’s not the best. I have the Pontus II and use the i2S input from my streamer. It sounds much quieter and better in all respects than USB or toslink. BTW the three you are looking at... all have i2S inputs.

I doubt if you did a blind level-matched listening test to the three DAC's listed you would be able to tell them apart. DAC's have such low noise/distortion and low-level linearity that they can be considered sonically neutral. None of these subjective reviewers do blind tests, which is the only way to eliminate sighted bias. I wouldn't trust any of them! Keep the Bel Canto and continue to enjoy it, while realizing you have saved spending $$$$!

@jasonbourne71 I'm getting a feeling that the Dacs I mentioned are generic and nothing special. I want a Dac with layering, but with the newer technology. Me thinks that I would have to up the price to get something special. And I do want something special. My Bel Canto is special, just like to be able to compare.

@2psyop I only mentioned USB, because my Antipodes has USB out and many claim it's superior to SPDIF. The streamers they make mostly have USB out only. Most high-end streamer/servers are like that. Funny thing is, 10 years ago, everyone was saying too much noise in USB signal.

If you want to believe its only hype than it is. On the other hand, perhaps the reviews are honest opinions.

Agree that I2S superior to usb, I2S native signal path in dac's, and segregated legs for data and clock another advantage. Both the Harmony and Musetec 006 dac's I presently have provide evidence for this advantage.

@bunkertoy 

If you know what sort of presentation you want, it's definitely easier than if your goal is a vague "something better".  If you don't listen to other DACs, how will you discover what you like?  Reviews can be a relevant factor but if you're looking to reviews alone, you may end up disappointed with what you buy.

My 2 cents...

Just pick one, lower tier DACs like these are indistinguishable, I would go with the DAC with the reputation for build quality, and that is not LAiV. 

I would have to agree with mr JB in this . you are kind of looking at the same DAC in different clothes , and before you have listen ... I guess you get the point!

my friend came by today and had his pontus II 15th ed with him to compare with my soulnote D-2 just for kicks and it was a revelation on how a big difference DACs can do . do not expect a 3k dac to sound the same as a 10k dac or even a 5k . 

I would go for the live harmony , it has a remote !!

Op find companies with return policy like Schiitaudip and dealers you can audition.Many of us here can recommend but it’s better to try it in your system.

I am SICK & TIRED of the CRAP that says USB is noisy!
 I can turn the volume up to absolute max on my SimAudio 240i with no signal,there is ABSOLUTELY NO NOISE,NO HASH,just a pitch black background!
  I'm willing to bet that 80% or more of the "USB is noisy"crowd also have an outdated SNAP,CRACKLE POP vinyl system as well,what a joke!

Your Bel Canto is a very nice Dac it's unlikely you will improve on it substantially with your choices but you never know until you try. Good luck with your search.

Sounds like the Dacs mentioned are nothing really special. BTW, that was not my end list. it was just the DACs that jumped out right away, once I typed in R2R dacs.

Once again, it seems I'm going to have to drop some bigger coin to get a game changer.

Perhaps suggestions on companies that allow you to sample their product before buying ? I think not many would do that, unless it was closer to $10K area.

The Dacs in a higher price range were

T + A

Totaldac

Lampizator

If you’re sticking with USB, a newer DAC may be better depending on its USB implementation and interior clock.  Ideally, what you would want to do to compare apples to apples, is get a really good streamer like an Aurender N20, then plug its SPDIF and USB into your DAC simultaneously, and listen to both.  Then do the same with DAC #2, and see if you hear any differences.  USB uses the DAC’s clock, SPDIF the streamer’s clock.  A lot of variables.  It would be a shame to throw away a great DAC because it sounded bad with one input, and you were never able to hear it through its other inputs.  So, with USB only, theres a good chance you could get something like a Pontus, prefer it to your Bel Canto, and get rid of the Bel Canto, when it fact it was overall the better DAC…and you’d never know it.  And then a lot of people swear by cable quality, especially for SPDIF.  So testing conditions become important.

Lastly, you really need to live with a couple DACs for a long time to start to appreciate any differences.  Especially if one is new.  Break in is real with DACs.  And in the end, differences can be very subtle.  After only a few days, you may come to one conclusion.  Then if you wait weeks or even months, you may come to a different conclusion.  Try to have fun with it!  

@freediver +1 USB in my LossLess EE Ref is dead silent. It is all bout implementation.

Completely disagree with your criticism of Vinyl, total BS, again implantation is key. 

Lampizators sound very good and would definitely be an upgrade at that price point you might also look at Audio Note Dacs.

@bunkertoy 

FYI, TMR (The Music Room) is probably your best bet for used gear that you can return. Be aware that you will have to pay a restocking fee + shipping if you do.

There are other online dealers of new gear that will charge you the shipping but not the restocking fee, including; 

UpScale Audio

Listen Up! 

Audio Advisor

Audio Connection

Audio Advice

Music Direct 

Verdant Audio 

BTW, just because something is widely acclaimed does not necessarily mean it is overrated!  For example, the Pontus has been around for quite a while in different versions and it remains very popular and very well reviewed, both by professional reviewers and users. Would you like it?  I have no idea. You say you believe you would like an R2R DAC but until you try one, you will never know.  

@jimmy2615 That's good info. Fyi my Antipodes Streamer/Server is highly regarded. They make very solid units and have incredible online support.

My Streamer has both USB & Spdif. I'm using the Spdif with a Tellurium Q Waveform Cable. Because my Bel Canto doesn't have USB, I just can't tell which output of the streamer sounds best.

You are also correct about length of time spent with a DAC, .Ideally I purchase something and if I'm unhappy, sell it for another. Rinse & Repeat. That's when buying used is best instead of brand new.

@jond Lampizators don't come cheap. I am reading good things about Audio Note also.

@stuartk Thanks for the list . I'm in Toronto, Canada.I feel like a DAC is such a difficult thing to fit in with the rest of your stereo chain. So many unknowns.

No one claiming usb noisy, just that I2S has a number of inherent advantages. I also don't doubt an optimized usb setup could  be superior to a less than optimal I2S setup.  I used usb exclusively for years without complaint, discovered I2S simply sounds better, try it you'll like it.

As for generic sound qualities from dacs, I've never heard two dacs that sound exactly the same in my systems. All have had varying levels of resolution, transparency and at least somewhat different presentations. It may well be tha all R2R dacs have a similar presentation and one that's different from Delta Sigma or FPGA, I wouldn't know until I'd listened to all R2R dacs.

S.M.S.L su-9pro or the su-s-ux are great dacs paired with the Gustard u18 usb interface using the l2S or hdmi connection 

You could also get a DDC (digital to digital converter) rather than a new DAC. The DDC can take the USB input and clean it up and reclock it and send it to your DAC via the AES/EBU input. I added a fairly inexpensive Denafrips Iris and felt that it added some clarity and bass to my system that I already thought was pretty good.

Also, the Denafrips Pontus is on the 15th generation so I'm not sure why you're looking at a Pontus II. The price is low and the Pontus 15th is essentially the same as the Venus 12th which is a DAC previously costing about $4,000 that you are getting for less than $2,000. Check out USAudioMart for deals on the DDC and DACs if you are interested and also Jay's Iyagi video on the Pontus 15th he put out this week. 

Finally, the question is whether you are looking for Delta Sigma or R2R stuff. You might also include the Holo Spring or a used May if you can find it. I've also been looking in this price territory and I'm finding some interesting lesser known stuff like the Audial DAC S5b which got a rave review from Elite Audio (YouTube) on 11-29-23. I haven't heard this DAC but the review(s) sound like I would like it and it has all the inputs you want including the i2s.  

I was reminded tonight how much a dac makes a difference! I’m using a Naim Nac 272 as preamp streamer. I moved my system upstairs and was using the Naim as a Dac. It sounded fine for the last few weeks but wasn’t really moving me and I wasn’t listening much. I moved my Musician Pegasus 2 upstairs and it’s just so much better. So much more meat in the bones and detailed. 
 

I have become a big R2R fan and I will say a lot of times the most expensive one may have better specs and does indeed sound slightly more refined but the cheaper model will often be punchier and more “fun” while still being plenty refined for my old rock lovin ass. As was the case with the Musician Aquarius which was a fabulous sounding dac but the Pegasus 2 is close in refinement and more punchy. YMMV. I will say both these dacs have made pretty much every damn thing sound great. Something I can’t say for any chip dac I’ve owned. 

As others have mentioned, LAIV has been having build quality issues lately. They are new, so might be going through growing pains, so buyer beware. Holo May and Cyan are "the" DACs every reviewer has loved. The Denafrips Pontus 15th is indeed (upon Jay Iyagi opening one up and looking) nearly a Venus in quality. So while Denafrips and other Chi-fi makers have been terribly guilty about making minor mods and changing the generation of a device, in this case, the 15th is worthy of "wow, getting a lot for your money".

I’m still on the fence regarding buying something from China and the aggravation of sending it back or trying to get in-warranty or out of warranty service done on them.

I’m sticking to DACs made in the U.S. or Europe because of that. I’m not sure my system is good enough to justify a $2000 DAC, so I’m considering Schiit Bifrost 2/64 or a refurbished PS Audio Gaincell DAC for about $1K.

In your budget you’d have many to choose from. If you can, buy via Amazon and be able to easily return it if it doesn’t meet your expectations.

Oh, and I get what Jason is saying, but DACs, even at the same rough price points do NOT all sound the same. The output stage and power supplies can vary considerably between DACs, hence different tonalities and different impressions of the leading edges, the bodies, and the decay of notes. Just wish we could go to the corner audio store and listen to many of these devices, but hey, the 1980s are long over. Rats.

And don’t overlook good sigma-delta or multibit DACs compared to R2R. They too can have "great soundstage and imaging and tonality" despite all the R2R hype via the YouTubers.

The Music Room might also be your friend for getting more bang for your buck too.

Finally, PS Audio is having that "Black Friday Refurb" sale and has a few preloved Directstream DAC MK1 for $1,599.00 USD. These are a few years old, but sold new for $6000. They have a recent firmware upgrade to the FPGA and many on here have commented they sounded great. 

@moonwatcher  and don’t overlook good sigma-delta or multibit DACs compared to R2R. I totally agree, which making a DAC upgrade that much harder... where do you start ?

Soo many options available. It's a bit overwhelming.

The top tier Lampizators are Grrreeeaatt and great $$$$. The T + A 200 D/A is in the same realm as the  Weiss 501 and it is excellent and a very good value even at full price.

I guess the question has turned into what is a solid upgrade from my Bel Canto (Statement upgrades.) I've heard stories of the Weiss being bright !. I'm all about analog. low fatigue sounds. full sound with timbre, holographic,tubey,warm.

What speakers do you have?

with your budget you won’t hear a difference….

Weiss not bright. I have it paired w/ a Grimm MU1. Weiss has gobs of adjustments too. I tried many but don’t use. 

If you want to go up to a more expensive Dac give Mikey at 11stereo a call…he is very honest and won’t sell you something you do not need..

Try this one on a home demo. It does need a lot of break-in so play it 24 x7 before rendering judgement. It also has a terrific USB input which I stream into using a Sonore OpticalRendu. That is fibre optic converted to USB.

Schiit Audio: Audio Products Made in USA

The LIM is the one you want for the warmth. It is an excellent DAC for that type of sound. I am going to convert my LIM to the MIB also on that link. I now want a more neutral DAC.

BTW - if you want to move up to a better DAC at a lower price check out the Yggi+. My $2.8k Yggii+ OG (no longer available) replaced a $15k DAC and the Yggi+ is so much better than it. Do not assume more money makes for better gear.

At the end of the day, in answering your original query...

No.

Different rooms, with equipment different than yours....and the wrong pair of ears on the sides of a different skull.....

Best guess at best;  yours is the final arbiter...

*L*  You're poisoned, go find your remedy..... ;)  Good luck and listening, J

@bunkertoy

Sorry-- I assumed you were located in US.

You might ask TMR whether there are complications regarding shipping to Canada.

Reputedly, the Pontus 12th has more meat on the bones than the new Pontus 15th.

You might add the Gustard R26 or a Mojo Audio to your list. 

To the point made by @dz13, there is a used (slightly modified) Singxer SU-6 DDC on USAM now for $325.  That would give you the (potential) benefit of reducing jitter while allowing you to use any type of input format into whichever DAC you end up with.  At your budget, you might consider making sure your server/streamer set-up is optimized first (maybe try an optical connection as mentioned previously) and then save for a DAC at a slightly higher price point of at least $4K where you could add the LTA Aero and Mojo Audio Mystique Y DACs to your list (both available with generous trial options).

Lampizator or Merason DAC1 second hand even if not R2R.

There are a lot of videos for  DACs.  I have had good experiences with the recommendations from Hans B. And New Record Day for DACs along with Erin and Audioholics for speakers etc. 

 I’ve tried 10 DACs including the ones built into my Rotel preamp and CD player.  My budget is $2K US.  The best to my ears in my system is the Holo Audio Cyan 2, which is what I’m using in my main system.  It is only a DAC so you need a separate streamer.  I’m using the Innuos Zen Mk3 connected with a Pine Tree Audio USB cable.  It was about $1300 delivered US.  The May is supposedly even better but beyond my budget.  
 

I know it can be overwhelming but my suggestion is to enjoy the journey, trust your ears and stay within your budget.  Upgrading, tweaking and trying different components is a great part of this hobby for me.  Good luck and please let us know what you decide to do. 

USB out from M1 MacBook Pro to Teac nt-505 to Yamaha a-s2000 to La Scalas…sounds great to me…also enjoy SMSL m400 and Topping d90…

NO you cannot trust anybody on PooTube!

They don’t even have the experience to review anything 2 channel except headphones! That’s all I can trust them to listen to.

At your budget nothing is going to make you happy just use your DAC now and love your amazing system.

The Border Patrol R2R Dacs are on sale, for around $1473 to $1975 based on the number of inputs. The GSII Schiit Yggdrasil OG is $1699. Both of these sound great and are made in the USA. 

Unfortunately, most audio reviews are based on the hype a company can generate through paid advertising revenue to the magazines their equipment is reviewed in. 

Not only is this a conflict of interest,  it also means that in all likelihood unless you're advertising in an audio magazine (which is usually expensive) you won't be able to get your audio gear reviewed.  

Years ago I spoke with the owner of a company that designed and manufactured a fine line of digital to analogue converters, one of which I owned.  When I asked him why I had never seen any other reviews of his gear he lamented that he could not compete with larger companies like Mark Levinson, because they had much larger advertising budgets which ensured that not only would their gear get reviewed, but that the reviews would always be positive;  since the magazines would never give up their advertising revenue. 

As such,  those who seek to purchase audio gear must rely on their own ears and when possible travel to an audio store that carries the equipment they are interested in purchasing.  It's also a good idea to find a store that will allow you to demo the gear in your own home system so that you'll know whether or not you will be satisfied with the equipment you are thinking of buying, once you hear it in your own system. 

To thine own ears be true. 😉

I have the Weiss 501 MK2, wonderful DAC.Comes with room corrections and different settings if needed. Had the chance to audition many DACs dealers telling me you should try and would never trade in my Weiss. Music is played as if you’re in the studio, never bright, not coloured and extremely detailed and clear sound.We all have different tastes and different hearing but for me after many trial and error’s with my sound system, my present setup is best and most rewarding to my taste. 

I have a Bryston DAC3.  It was the first DAC that I encountered where usb was not a compromise.  You should be able to pick up a used one in your budget range.

  I get the point about wanting to audition in your system and the difficulty of doing this with used.  Is there a bricks and mortar dealer by you that will allow for a short home audition on the stuff that they have accepted in trade from other customers?

I trust written and video reviews at least as much as I do anonymous postings on message boards and forums. I do research using a number of different sources, including written and video reviewers, and forums, to reach a conclusion. That said, I've had a Holo May KTE DAC for about 3 years and am very happy with it. 

My observation is the YouTube reviewers never give a negative review.  However if you’re spending $2k plus on most any piece of modern electronic kit, you’ll get something good, maybe not “great,” but certainly very good. System synergy is also important, as is room acoustics and speaker placement along with good, but not necessarily expensive interconnects and cables. 

That being said, I am very impressed with my Pontus II 12th fed by an IRIS DDC. Now that Denafrips is putting out 15th anniversary editions, you should be able to pick up the combo used for $2k. USB your streamer source to the IRIS then I2S to the Pontus II NOS, you’ll love the smooth detail and huge soundstage! 

I really don't take any of the YT audiophile "reviewers" seriously.

@bunkertoy I had Bel Canto DAC3. Used it with USB from Mac Mini and tried it with CD transport as well. Not a bad DAC but modern DACs in the same MSRP price range are better for the most part. 
 

If you want to try an R2R DAC I’d recommend stretching it out to Denafrips Terminator or Holo May. At this point these two are established and have service centers in the USA. I would skip LAiV - it is too new and there are reports of boards going bad. Besides, it’s overhyped. Giant killers are extremely rare in the world of DACs.

Also, in the $3000 price range you have vety high quality delta sigma or FPGA DACs on a used market. In example Chord Higo TT2, Bricasti M3, Bryston BDA3, etc. Lots of non Chi-Fi choices…

I have the TotalDac d1 entry level model and couldn't be happier. I also invested in a higher quality streamer (Baets Revoltion) 

I started my digital quest with RME then Bryston

It was night and day difference between the 2 systems.

If your single source for music is streaming I would suggest you focus on maximizing that part.

A DAC with external power supply

And a dedicated streamer with external power supply

AES INPUT OR Is2

Good luck

After thinking about a new dac for over a year I have decided on the Audial DAC S5b. Why you could ask? It uses a very old chip.

But that is one of the reasons, these chips were abandoned because they were very expensive to manufacture. Also in my opinion the implementation is the all important aspect of a dac. Pedja has spent years optimizing this design.

The dac I have been using for last many years is a Primare dac30 which is still going strong and will be doing service in my second system, for this new dac I wanted something different than sigma delta variations.

Should get it in time for the holidays, am really looking forward to hearing it in my system.

@bunkertoy I wouldn’t blindly subscribe to all DAC’s in a $ 1,000-3,000 sound the same, even if they share similar designs.  I’ve been able or lucky enough to be able to compare DAC’s in my system, have had Node 2i, Lumin D2 w/Sbooster, MHDT Pagota Balanced and the DAC in a Krell Illusuons ii Pre.  I was able to swap between the DAC’s and also use either the Node 2i and Lumin D2 as a streamer only.  I then sold the D2 and bought an AURALiC G2 as a stand alone streamer.  I still had the Node, MHDT and Krell and would switch between them.  They all sounded noticeably different.  With all of the DAC’s using the stand alone streamer was a noticeable step up.  Synergy was also a big part of the equation.  Choosing the input and output’s also played a key role.  I moved on to a Lumin P1 and then to a Lumin U2 mini w/Sbooster feeding a PS Audio Direct Stream MKii.  So, I’ve had R2R, various Chip designs, FPGA designed DAC’s and they all sound different in my system, noticeably.  I can also hear differences when changing inputs / outputs.  
 

Finding either a streamer that’s versatile and can play well many DAC’s and various outputs or getting a Streamer that is known, designed to have a special connection to a DAC like say the PS Audio Airlens and MKii using the I2s are keys.  
 

You have a really nice DAC already, I don’t know that in this price range you’ll beat it, more likely you’ll find something that sounds different.  I like the advice you got around picking a versatile streamer, enjoying the DAC you have and then upgrading the DAC down the road.  If you do roll with a new DAC and want North American made or European made and want to go the R2R route, Linear Tube Audio (LTA) just launched their first DAC, it’s R2R and has a Tube stage.  It’s getting a lot of love and they are known for making outstanding gear with high quality parts usually not found in gear at the price ranges they sell at.  Schit also has a crazy ratio, value relative to price.  If you venture into Asian made products, MHDT offers some really well implemented R2R tube stage DAC’s.  If you went with an all in 1 box, a Lumin T3 used would be a nice step up but then you are a little more limited, not as flexible as having separates.  Used will give you a nice bang for your buck.  Another highly regarded R2R Tube DAC made in the U.S. is the Audio Mirror Tubador has gotten a lot of love in the past but haven’t heard much recently. 
 

Synergy is key, the streamer and how well it plays with the DAC matters, how well the DAC matches the Pre / Amp also play a big role.  The technology is always evolving from DAC standpoint but a well implemented power supply and output stages along with the overall design of the DAC are way more important than the latest chip.  Out of all the DAC’s I’ve had, the MHDT Pagoda balanced was my favorite.  Next to the Node 2i, was the cheapest, the design was old school, R2R with a tube stage.  At some point I’m going to either buy this DAC again or a similar design, something like the LTA or Tubador to compare to the PS Audio.  
 

Good Luck! 
 

Tons of great responses.

@jimmyblues1959 Totally agree about the marketing aspect. My speakers are Revival Atalante 3. They are a new speaker company, based in France. The engineer is from Dynaudio. I'm so happy with these. I found them through discussions on a forum.

Point being there have been many DACs mentioned in this thread which I would never have looked up, so many thanks for expanding my search. Totally spending hours reading and searching reviews, while I listen to music. Not a bad way to spend a day.

@dz13 @mitch2 @trivema I really like to try the idea of a DDC. could be an interesting experiment, with low cost.