Fascinated By GR Research Channel

I watched some of his videos. There is a lot of good info, but at the same time he is trying to sell you his kits.

everything can be improved for a price. 
I think the question is, for example with the Rp 600s, is it worth spending $350-400 in a $500-600 speaker? Or you are better off selling your 600s and getting better speakers?

Danny is talented, no doubt BUT like @astolfor is saying, he is trying to sell you on his kits or work.  

You hear a lot about his channel and what he says but I rarely hear feedback from people saying "he made my speakers so much better!"  Not saying they don't exist but I've never heard anything yet hear about his youtube channel all the time.

When he started putting down the design of the Harbeth is when I decided to unsubscribe. 

I never met another engineer that didn't think he/she could do something better. But improving a fixed design is easier than starting a design from scratch. Look at the Klipsch Heresy. They made a bazillion of them but just came out with major redesign number 4. 

I did not want to say but since @blkwrxwgn says he has an arrogant way about saying things which to me make me question his intentions.

he runs a small operation compared to most speaker manufacturers, his cost basis are entirely different, and it is so easy to cherry pick and criticize everything. Can most speakers and every sound system sound and manufactured better absolutely.

how does he even measure? And to be frank if he is so good do you think he and his kits would not get the attention from the media or big audio distributors?

 

I agree with the OP. Very interesting videos. Even though some of the experts in this forum may disagree with some of the details of his statements, they generally fit my experience, and I especially like the way they are presented, as he points out the capacitors, resistors and inductors he is describing. Very informative for a non-engineer like me. He is not pushing his own repair kit hard. My experience is like he is describing - using some money on component upgrade from a local tech (or diy) is often very well worth it.

 

I have personal experience with a one-off crossover rebuild  that Danny

performed last summer on my circa 1988 Tannoy FSM speakers.

The speakers sounded pretty good before I brought them to him.

He measured the existing frequency responses, cabinet resonances and crossover components. They performed poorly on the tests. He started over from scratch.

 

Once the new parts burned in -400 hours- the sound was much better. He also

sold me some no-rez for the insides and suggested adding bracing inside

in a couple spots. 

 

Was this worth the $200 he charged? Heck yes. 

I also had the opportunity to hear his open baffle system 

with his amazing Dodd gear. The $4k his smaller Open baffle kit sells 

is a steal. I don't think there is an $8k speaker that comes close.

Let's hope he is in business to make money otherwise

his doors would close. I bought one of his power cables

just to support his business. For the $300 I spent I have

no complaints.

He is one of the more Legit people in the industry.

I love his exposees on brands people think are "High Quality".

He shows the crap they use inside. Other Reviewers need to

learn some of his skills.

He is the Real Deal.

 

 

 

 

 

Love the channel, but Danny sounds more and more like he's on a mission to correct all the speakers designers of this world, including the very best.

And don't get him started on cables....

Yes, Danny is sharing his decades of experience, R&D, products, simply amazing.  We are very fortunate to have people like this in our industry helping us to leverage and improve on our existing investments. When it works well, he makes money $ at it!  And, saving $ YOU money too if you can upgrade your speakers. 

Positive Feedback on GR/Danny:

A close friend who does not post here is a very happy customer, recently. I was involved in the self-help project some.  After getting the woofer surrounds and voice coils re-done in the mid woofers, he sent in one of his Vienna Acoustics speakers (recently); its on the recent videos where Danny was "confused, perplexed" by the measured speaker as-is while comparing two VA speaker units from two different customers.  Danny was transparent. It was not a trap set by us, we just did not say much, wanted to see what would happen.

 What Danny did not know is the speaker my friend sent in was recently upgraded, caps, and more.  It was a cheap uplift i/we did to the stock crossover, and better than the stock crossovers, but not the best yet. I could not get my buddy to buy even better parts. It was an experiment with mildly more expensive parts over stock.  Not the max, went from $10 caps to $20 caps at best on try-1.   Buddy was happy with the midway lift from cheap parts to mid-fi parts for a minute. That lasted for a few months then it made him think more, "..what about even better parts and even better design - can these speakers sound even better ???".  Time to step it up, again, he paid the $ to box and ship one heavy speaker to Danny.   

My buddy wanted MORE, wanted hi-fi grade parts and redesign, so he sent it to Danny at GR Research.  Danny ended up measuring and redesigning the whole approach and transformed the stock crossover from a 2.5 way design to a true 3-way design; thus using one woofer for lower bass and the other woofer for mid bass range, the tweeter frequency changed some too. Frequency response looks good, some of the odd peaks and crazy dips were smoothed out a LOT.  Danny provides all the parts in the kit, wiring too if needed. Buddy had to assemble the crossover, soldering it together.  This is something to be aware of and ask about.

Results:

"Sounds much better, more transparent", "more musical" to my friend.  His "wife noticed a difference too".  He uses the revised VA Grand speakers with a Black Ice Audio F22 tube amp and says they "not only sound better but have more output for whatever reason".  This surprised me.  There you go.  Buddy saved about $6-7k on other speakers he was looking at before. Not now, he's done! No need, the upgrade worked in a positive way.  

re: Danny / GR Research - 

Yes, Danny is trying to sell kits. That's what he's in business to do and does a pretty good job at it.   

Note:  Your results may vary and low cost speakers with cheap low grade woofers and tweeters may not benefit as much.  First hand feedback helps I hope. There ya go.  

 

 

Love his channel. He designed the crossover for the Usher BE-718, speakers that garnered praise by most reviewers 

I didnt watch his videos like he was the great speaker saviour, or that I have to buy his kits. Just that he was pointing out typical problems with cheap parts even in expensive speakers. What these parts look like, and how to get something better.

I didnt watch his videos like he was the great speaker saviour, or that I have to buy his kits. Just that he was pointing out typical problems with cheap parts even in expensive speakers. What these parts look like, and how to get something better.

+1

^^^^+2 He shows how some speakers can be brought up a level or 2, with objective proof. Very educational and a great resource. Impractical for me at the moment but I sure appreciate the channel and what he does. Thank you to Danny and please keep ’em coming.

I recently just built a set of his NX-Studio speakers. Holy balls are those things absolutely amazing. Comparing them to anything I've heard before would be an insult to how much better they are. They are so open and transparent sounding it is unbelievable. And since it was all done with my own sweat equity it was at a fraction of the price compared to purchasing retail thus affordable to the average joe.

On the subject of Danny and his business, yes he is a business man. He has a job to do of promoting his products and his services. He is no different than any small business owner except his job is pretty freaking awesome working in the audio industry. The dude knows his stuff, but doesn't have a poker face when dealing with "cheesy parts" as he would say. I know he wouldn't intend to offend anybody for buying or making speakers built to a price point. It's the same as buying a Chevy Malibu instead of a Ferrari 458. Some people love their Malibu because it fits their lifestyle and their budget while some demand the performance and status of a Ferrari. Their company just tries to close the gap between the two.

This endorsement was not paid for or approved by GR Research, just a happy customer with only good interactions with the guy and his staff.

I can verify that the man knows what he's doing. I bought into the Klipsch RP600M craze and unfortunately was left disappointed. Wish I would have caught Ron and New Record Day's review before purchasing. The shortfalls he described are exactly what I was hearing. Luckily he recommended Danny at GR Research and had an interesting comparison video trying to illustrate the difference before and after.

Picked up the upgrade from Danny. Skipped the tube connectors and instead kept the original binding posts. I took measurements before and after to verify that I had everything set up correctly. Sure enough the speakers measured flatter after the upgrade. The big valley between the woofer and tweeter was largely gone. The peaks in the tweeter we're smoothed out and response was nice and flat.

In the end I have a set of speakers that I can run without any sort of EQ and I am very happy with how they sound. Can't recommend his upgrades enough if there is something you're unhappy with in your current speakers and would rather not run EQ.

Only thing I don't find value in are things like tube connectors and special cables. If you're chasing that final 1% I could see it, but personally I'm okay with skipping that stuff. Not dismissing it, but I bet there are people who would be turned off by the way he pushes that stuff, especially when the whole measurements vs trusting your ears debate seems to be so heated lately.

 

GR Research is over on Audio Circle.  He is one of many audio Industries that have a site on AC.  I spend a lot more time on AC than Agon, WHY?  They is the friendly knowledgeable posters.  His articles are well documented with pictures and he answers the why do it this way.  Unfortunately, for me, he does not do planar speakers.  I will eventually consult Richie for a better xover in my 1.7i Maggie's.  There are many nice knowledgeable folks on Agon, but, I get very tired of wading through the politics to get to the gems.  

@dwmaggie the issue with Audio Circle is that it's the equivalent of a communist country.  The moderators will take any negative comments out because the companies that have "circles" pay for those in advertising.  So anything that is viewed negatively by the company they will have the moderators delete it. 

Felt that applied since you brought up politics. ;) 

But using that as an example of what kind of feedback you get there isn't really worth anything.

But I remember Danny being involved with av123/Mark Schifter back in the day too.

@dwmaggie Gr Research does have a crossover upgrade kit for the Magnepans. I did it with my 1.7i's and would say it was a worthwhile upgrade.

Snesvold, thank you, the xover is on my short list.  I did put Magna Risers under them, nice overall improvement.  My DWMs utilize Mye stands.  

Blk etc.  You made my point about politics right on the money.  Now about communism, have you ever been to Hong Kong, Viet Nam or any other commie country?  

I also go to Audio Science Review to read different points of view.  The moderator is very tough evaluator/measurements guy.  He will not recommend about 95 out of 100 products, his opinion.  

Danny is knowledgeable and is a good guy.

A straight shooter.

 

My experience with GR was really good. I built a pair of their speaker cables and am more than happy with the performance, the quality, and the support I got even before the purchase. I emailed Danny with some questions and he was quick to respond and easy to communicate with. I like his videos and will probably build a speaker kit one of these days. My 1.5 cents!

I find what he has to say really interesting. And not only does he "edit" speakers (fixing/improving someone else's design), he also designs speakers.

Every once in awhile I wonder if there's too much of a good thing when you tweak stuff (after over a decade of me modifying my cars). I'm totally a layman with speakers, but (for example) on the Klipsch 600 improvements...just listening through some headphones, I preferred the sound of the originals...which made me wonder if it's possible to have over damped the speaker with the extra sound insulation. Can too much insulation have "killed" the sound people enjoy hearing from Klipsch (for the record, I have never owned any of their speakers). I could totally be wrong since I wasn't able to hear either speaker live, but it was a thought. You can 100% overdamp a cars suspension...

 

I've know about Danny when he started in the business behind VMPS and Brian Cheney. :-) There were some heated debates behind Danny fixing "Some" manufactures speakers. VMPS sold kit and in those kit there were different qualities of parts. 

Danny fixes a center channel speaker and "POSTED" his repairs. Brian goes NUTS! Funniest thing I ever seen. I was at VMPS when the wars were going on a couple of times. Danny fixed the speaker all right, it weighed twice as much but it sounded wonderful. The fact was the kit had a few updates and actual factory recalls if you just asked. Danny was REAL young and didn't care for Brian's Build to the "EAR" design. Brian was a MR BASS. He was a wonder to talk to if you could get him to open up. 

I saw that guy build 12 point to point 4 way crossovers for STIIse 5 way speakers while I fixed his van. 3 hours.

He would install, an XO, spl the speakers, pull one XO add a tiny resistor or two and he was done. The speakers were matched. They were hooked up to a tone generator for 24 hour, face to face.

Brian went to heaven in 2012. VMPS closed down. BUT his products are still around doing quit well.

Danny has matured into the easy talking understand fellow he is for a reason. He is a good business man. But most of all he likes what he does, and he is honest.

Danny has a flavor too. FLAT as a pancake if he can get it there. He uses good but not over the top parts as he as learned too. HE passes that savings on to his customers. He is very reasonable and will offer options, like better caps, inductors, cables, binding post and cabinet bracing/NoRez ideas.

A lot of bang for the buck..

AV123s I tried to fix two pairs of those things. They had great sound effects in a gymnasium. I finally enclosed the planars and they improved by 1000% That was the worst OB design I ever worked with.. Even after Danny's XO reworks. They sucked less, BUT at least you could get them to work. Sure couldn't before he worked on them.

I want him to design an XO for me. One last speaker project for me. A stand mount small planar/ribbon/MB monitor. The perfect retirement speaker, throw it in the hole just before they dump me in. I'm gonna try to take it with me..:-)

GR has a fine staff too, his cabinet guy is a TOP notch guy to work with. Good communal support too. They love their Danny.. :-) Texas yeah howdy! 

Love GR research chanel,  I have been tweaking x-overs for 20 years and even if I don't voice it the same way Danny does he's really good at what he does and I have the opportunity to learn a few more tricks so thanks Danny 😊 

I think Danny is a "stand-up" guy. I have his 16 strand speaker cable, and two of his power cables. I am well pleased with both, and the 16 strand cables exceeded my expectations. Perception is a wonderful thing. You might say that he is trying to sell you something. I honestly didn't have that point of view. I saw a knowledgeable man who exposes the shortcomings, and design flaws of speakers, etc. that some folks have invested in. I have new B&W 705 S2 speakers. I would love to send him one to measure, and follow his recommendations for a possible upgrade. The problem is that my speakers pack two to a box, and shipping is crazy expensive right now. I consider Danny to be an "audio ally", and I have nothing negative to say about him.

I tried the GR-Research kit for the Klipsch RP-600m

They certainly sound different.  Better?  That's in the ear of the beholder.  I like them with the mods.

The kit lowers the sensitivity of the speakers quite a bit.  I did the mod on one speaker and left the other stock.  I could not listen to them as a stereo pair with the balance  centered.  Kind of gave me a headache.

Listened in mono with the balance skewed to the modified speaker.  Definitely takes more power to get to the same volume level, I'm guessing it's now an 85-87 dB speaker.

Been listening to them for nearly a year.  No complaints.  I prefer them over stock.

I would try one of his speakers but I'm going with the Criton 1TD-X next. 

 

 

 

 

 

I've watched a few on recommendation. Mostly rubbish for the ignorant.

Just one comment about parts, sometimes a less expensive part will sound better in a given circuit. Throwing expensive parts at a crossover might get you better sound, it will certainly get you different sound.

When he started putting down the design of the Harbeth is when I decided to unsubscribe. 

I wonder if it was this video regarding Harbeth (starting at the 9:30 mark)?  That was definitely an interesting take on its crossover...; I personally find it useful to get a peek inside a speaker and get an idea of its part qualify and construction quality.

 

 

I agree he doesn’t seem to push his products hard at all. It also would appear that if you are the first to send him a particular brand and model to play with, he will do the upgrades for free. This helps everyone in the long run.

All the best Danny.

What’s up with all these comments about how he doesn’t push his products or services? That’s the whole point of his videos!!!!! I’ve got a bridge to sell a few of you ;)

 

”look at all the faults I can find with this speaker and here is what I would do to make it better” is the point to every video he does. It makes people think he can make any speaker better.  And obviously if he can find faults in some of the great speaker designs then it MUST mean his speakers are flawless……..

The best point to take from all of this is that you don’t just throw more expensive parts at a design, like others have said, it might make it sound different but it was designed to sound a certain way. You can change this but it doesn’t always mean it’s better in the end.

I have built 2 kits from Danny and a crossover upgrade on another. He is a straight shooter and IMO does great work. The X-Statics are a fantastic speaker. Quality parts make good music, seems simple enough.

"I've watched a few on recommendation. Mostly rubbish for the ignorant."

ieales: coming out from under the bridge, eh?

 

There are reasons the GR Research rooms at RMAF were constantly receiving Best of show comments from reviewers like Steven Stone and others.  The man absolutely knows what he is doing.  He has done consulting work for Usher, Tyler Acoustics, Hawthorne, Emerald Physics, and the list goes on...  

 

His NX-series of speakers are stunners for the money.  The NXtreme line arrays with open baffle bass modules are the most dynamic, coherent and sonically invisible loudspeakers I have ever heard.

 

Rubbish is commenting without basis.

I know that the proprietor of Harbeth is very much ‘old school’ in that he doesn’t believe audiophile components provide any improvement over industrial grade, and that he personally uses well maintained 1970’s era transistor amplifiers because it’s very difficult to significantly improve on them. Not real big on speaker cables either - very much a ‘wire is wire’ man..

I think you can see that philosophy clearly reflected in the speaker dissection.

Most people wouldn't bother to upgrade any of their equipment. They'd just sell it and buy something else. 

Danny at GR understands that for a subset of the market that is willing to tweak or upgrade, this can be done at a fairly low $$ cost. The real cost is (a) the customer admitting their stuff isn't optimal and (b) being willing to reach out, ship the speakers, take the risk, etc.

IMHO, *that* is his business model. And it's a good one.

I'm another who had Danny do testing and build a crossover for my 1990s Epos ES12 speakers.  He's been a respected designer and engineer for the industry for years on years, so he has a great deal of "insider" experience and prefers to do his own thing.  With "audiophile" speakers, many comment and worry about losing that speakers signature sound with messing with a crossover, thinking that you buy and love the speaker for the sound it made, so what could possibly be wrong with it?  I was VERY concerned about this, thinking "no no, but this was SUPPOSE to sound this way".  Well, yes, it was....but that doesn't mean it is 'right'. 

As most likely know, the Epos line from the original ES14, 11 and 12s were well known for amazing crisp detail and accuracy, strong central focus, a bit lean, but very "British" sounding. Some of this partly owned to the actual LACK of any crossover other than a filter cap on the tweeter. 

Danny uses the same industry testing methods I believe every single manufacturer uses to test speaker designs, box designs, and crossover networks. The testing proved that there were irregularities in the signal response, enough so that what he was seeing on a response I was hearing from the speakers.  Some, were part of the known/loved "Epos sound" but over time were annoying and just not pleasing to me. 

The crossover components, his time, testing, and time with me on the phone and emails were all worth past the $300+ dollars (high quality components, schematic, no rez, wires and silver solder).  I love these speakers  so much already, despite the age (a lot for sentimental value).  Once the new crossovers were put into play and broken in (took awhile), I love these speakers even more.  I was worried that I would lose/miss the "Epos" sound, but in truth what I was getting were bumps and dips in certain frequencies that created some of that "signature sound".  Once properly controlled with a crossover, the design and box really worked incredibly well together: still has crisp accurate detail, still great focus, but with a better blend across the frequency response, more richness, and (ugh) more 'musical'.  

I am able to test the speakers against themselves without the crossovers (I have a second pair left as/is), and it is dramatic how basically it sounds like someone screwed around with an EQ, and I need to rely more on the Rega Sub to 'fill in' with the original crossover-less version.  I lost nothing, but gained a great deal.  They still sound like Epos, only smoother, same detail, a bit more punch (relative term for a speaker with a 5" driver) but a much better listening at all levels, for long periods of time.

What I think is most interesting is the flack GR/Danny takes from both sides of the audiophile community.  He is an actual designer and engineer, musician, with decades of professional experience, and he is a bit of an audiophile.  He gets flack for building crossovers or criticizing speakers with comments like "but did you even listen to them?! That's how they are suppose to sound!", to criticized by the engineering community for pushing 'snake oil' (seriously can we please retire this hackneyed term already?).  He can go from being attacked for only looking at measurements, to NOT looking or depending on measurements for things like speaker cable or power cords.  Just amazing.       
 

And obviously if he can find faults in some of the great speaker designs then it MUST mean his speakers are flawless…

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

They are. I like ugly girls that are flawless, sound like an oxymoron? It's always in the eyes of the beholder!

Regards

I don't know what specifically motivated these postings, but here is a three-part series by Alan Shaw on this very topic, posted November 8-9 of 2021.

 

The essence of good engineering is cost management. That is to say it is bad design - hence poor engineering - to add a single cent to the cost of a product when a cheaper solution would provide exactly the same user experience, possibly last longer and perform more reliably and use less natural resources. To add needless cost deprives the manufacturer of income that could be usefully directed to R&D and the long term sustainability of the business.

And so this maxim must apply to loudspeakers. It must be good engineering practice for the designer to periodically take a hard look at the selection of components used in, for example, a loudspeaker crossover and to ask four questions:
 

1. Can I save cost in this design by using alternative component technology?​

​

2. Can I improve the audible or measurable performance of the product if I use alternative component technologies?​

​

3. Should I add cost to the product for purely marketing reasons i.e. to make the parts look more sexy, to create the illusion in the non-technical consumer's mind of enhanced pride of ownership (even though there is absolutely no technical or sonic benefit)? You can call this 'go-faster stripes'.​

​

4. Is the selection of these components future proof, are they durable and are they the best use of natural resources?​

​

So, let's consider the selection of the type of capacitor technology; there are two competing capacitor families available to use in loudspeaker crossovers: wet and dry capacitors.

First, wet (electrolytic) capacitors. These are axial (cylinders with wires out of opposite ends) and are widely used in loudspeaker crossovers, typically having blue, green red or black printed film over their shiny, tubular metal cans. As you might expect, if you cut these open (or they leak) your fingers will be covered in a goo jell. Here are examples:
 

As for dry-film capacitors, there are some package (case) options. Cut these open and the interior working part is completely dry:
 

Above we see an orange cased dipped radial (wires come out of the bottom) capacitor, a plastic-box radial capacitor and a cylindrical axial type - all three are dry-film.

So, the crossover design commences and the designer has to ask himself and resolve certain key issues:

• Does he have any fundamental likes or dislikes amongst these two primary types of capacitors?
• Does he have any negative experience such as premature failure or short working life that could impact on product Warranty?
• What about cost and availability?
• What about capacitance and case size tolerance - is off the shelf ±10% acceptable in the final product?
• How much board area is available for capacitors? Would the tighter packaged (thin, tall) cases of the radial types use less board area than the cylindrical types?
• What do the manufacturer's data sheets specify for working voltage, temperature, current, leakage and life expectancy?
• Does he have some emotional attachment to one type over another?
• Does he believe that one type sounds better or measures better than another? What is the evidence? Anecdotal or personal experience under controlled conditions?
• Does he actually care about the nuances of capacitor technology at mere audio frequencies?
• Is it likely that the International Space Station would use such a type given the extreme dependence on reliability?
• Is his engineering driven by market fancies?

and so on.

If you disassemble these capacitor families, you will find this. Everything you could ever want to know about capacitors, here, empowering the circuit designer to select the optimum type for his circuit. Remember: what may be a good choice of capacitor family for use in a laptop or mobile phone, may be the opposite of the best choice for a loudspeaker.

 

Now we can turn to look at inductors (soils, chokes) as would be used in a loudspeaker crossover.

Again, here the designer has some choices available to him. First, here are two air cored inductors. Air cored simply means that the windings have been made around an invisible tube, which has been withdrawn from the centre leaving a stack of free-standing copper wire. Sometimes, to neaten the stack and stop it toppling over, a non-magnetic plastic bobbin is used, but that would have absolutely no effect on the coil's electrical properties:
 

Inductance, measured in milli Henries is proportional not to the thickness of the copper wire, but to the number of turns of wire around the central core regardless of which layer of the winding it is on so if you want a high value inductance, you will need more turns than if you need a smaller inductance.

In practical terms, a point is reached - the above pictures hint at this - where the number of turns has resulted in a tall stack of enamel insulated copper that is barely strong enough to support itself, and that sets a practical limit on how big an air core crossover coil can be in a loudspeaker application. It's no joke to imagine that if the crossover designer needs a high value air-cored inductor, the inductor itself might fill the entire speaker enclosure!

So a method was needed to 'boost' the magnetising efficiency of turns of copper wire - a magnetic material is put into the core previously occupied by ordinary air and wow! Really high values of inductance are now possible with relatively few turns, and much less copper .... and probably less DC reistance too ....

Here is a winding into which a ferrite material has been slid into the core:
 

Another type is a bobbin core, where the bobbin is magnetically conductive (unlike the plastic bobbin shown in the air core above):
 

and here are very typical iron dust or ferrite-cored coils as used in loudspeaker crossovers:
 

Now we should be able to recognise capacitor and inductors on a loudspeaker crossover (network) board:

Here from an internet image search we can see air-cored coils and dry film capacitors (and a fuse):
 

Here we can see an air cored inductor and two wet-film electrolytic capacitors:

And here is a combination circuit with a steel-cored coil (top left), an air-cored coil (middle) and electrolytic capacitors (red) alongside dry-film capacitors (yellow).
 

It's the designer ability to mix and match components that gives him the power to shape the loudspeaker sound just as he wishes. There is no universal best solution, and a consumer mantra that states that 'all capacitors should be polypropylene' or that 'all inductors should be air core' is just ignorant of engineering reality and demonstrates an emotional response to an engineering matter.

 

So what are the preferences and choices that we have made at Harbeth in our crossover designs?

The first point is ’cost is no constraint’. That means that as far as we are concerned at Harbeth - although I know for certain that competitors work to rigid cost ceilings and this limits the type and numbers of components that their crossovers can have - we will add components and complexity to achieve, in combination with the shape of the cabinet and the characteristics of the drive units, the smoothest measurable frequency response. If that can be achieved with two components great, but that’s a fantasy. If it takes twenty, so be it: we suffer the cost, size and assembly time for the improved performance.

It must be obvious that $10 on material cost is $10 off profit so for a manufacturer to add to the cost of his product, the benefit of improved performance must outweigh the additional cost, and may be reflected in a higher selling price which the delighted consumer is willing to pay for.

The second point is appropriateness to task. Given the power handling of the woofer and tweeter being the defining power limitations in the complete speaker, we can work backwards to selecting appropriately rated crossover components.

 

A lot of good points were made in the responses to your question about Danny's company.  It's interesting to find out that those $4000.00 a pair Revel speakers have less than twenty bucks worth of x-over parts.  And that's a lot of companies doing that.  I spoke to him on the phone a couple of times about changes to my speakers which he likes(surprise !).  No mods to the design, just parts swapping which I was considering already, and then I see his video.  I called the speaker manufacturer's distributor in the states and discussed these changes.  One important aspect was warranty issues which they weren't too concerned about.  There take was that they as a company have to decide where to best spend the budget (cost) of manufacture of the speaker system.  You could improve the x-covers ad infinitum.  Where do you stop?  Each dollar extra spent by them adds five dollars to the retail cost of the speakers. Danny's prices are fair; he did the analysis and his time and that's worth something.  Parts quality is very good, although I have an issue with those connectors he uses and insists are the best choice.  Even in his description of why they're better, part of it doesn't make sense to me.  The distance between the wire from the driver and the speaker cable; still has two solder joints and two pieces of copper between them.  I don't see how that distance whether it's a half-inch, a quarter, or even a sixteenth of an inch makes a difference not to mention makes changing out, testing other speaker cables problematic.

The few Harbeths I've heard are pleasant sounding, inoffensive and uninvolving. I feel they are overated and very overpriced.

Alan Shaw states:

The first point is ’cost is no constraint’

we will add components and complexity to achieve, in combination with the shape of the cabinet and the characteristics of the drive units, the smoothest measurable frequency response.

 

If cost is no object/constraint then what are all those grainy sand cast resistors doing in there???  There is no place in high-end audio for these nasty things including power supplies.  He is also parading 'the smoothest measurable frequency response as a badge of honour.

To those gasping in horror, let me explain. Each and every component in an XO is doing some damage to the signal and in the example above, Danny counted about 30 components! Yes the resultant frequency plot is impressively smooth, but at what cost?

I built a little speaker using a small fullrange Fostex driver. Sounded great but had an upper midrange peak. OK no problem, I threw together a notch filter consisting of a cap, coil and resistor all in parallel and wired into one of the speaker wires. This gave the impression of more bass and was a better balanced sound, BUT, it killed the life and dynamics. It was quickly removed.

Understand that this was not an XO as such, just a simple filter. Now try using an XO with about 30 components. Understand also that 30 cheap as chips components will 'measure' exactly the same as 30 better components but will not sound the same. It does however please many who need to see its response graph. More important is a clean CSD and proper phase tracking around XO. The expanded vertical axis in the plots shown in the video appear worse than they are because grads are at 5dB not 10dB, but just look at the waterfalls. 

And now a final sobering thought. Place your great measuring speaker in the average room and the acoustics of said room just make a total farce out of the holy grail of 'flat response' Those with measuring kit will know what I mean.

 

Danny is one of the only people I've ever seen describe the phase relationship issue between drivers so clearly.  This concept seem to elude a lot of engineers, which is clear by seeing his pre-mod measurements.  So often I go to audio shows and many speakers have a weird hollow indistinct sound that is clearly phase issues going on in the midrange, robbing the music of transient clarity.  While I have no firsthand experience with Danny's work, I really like what he's saying, and the way he explains things.  I've built many of my own speakers, but without good measurement equipment, I'm using trial & error to get to a sound that I like.  I just do it for fun (and frustration).  

Danny is one of the most down to earth people I have ever been around. As others have stated his long list of best sound at shows is well known. He is quite a gifted designer and has created a niche that seems to cause some people heart burn.

He has gained a following due to his skills and ability to showcase them and not relying on "paid magazine reviewers" to hawk his products and services. He has paid his dues and has never been less than a true gentlemen. He doesn’t push things he cannot demonstrate as superior and knows how to stretch the engineering level of drivers to achieve better results than a great many boutique speaker makers.

He offers a product and people purchase. Word of mouth has always been the best advertising and he has been on a long journey to earn all that he has acheived. If some want to knock him, it is without merit or understanding what value he has brought to a great many. He is one of the best I have ever been around personally.

 I am always amazed at Danny's detractors. OF COURSE he is trying to sell his kits! It is literally his main job. OF COURSE many times it is not worth it to upgrade your speakers... and he tells you so. OF COURSE he is harsh  on speakers sent to him. He is an expert experienced speaker designer and knows when corners were cut and quality is poor! It's one of the main (guilty pleasure) reasons most of us watch him dissect name brand products that most of us know are crap. Think Klipsch....  The guys seems as authentic as you get and if he comes off as arrogant it may be because he doesnt sugar coat his opinions and he has a lot of experience listening and designing amazing systems. I have learned more from his channel than all other you tubers combined by a LONG shot. Someday I hope to build his open baffle studio monitor.

Have to bump this back up because everything that people said about Danny comes out in this arrogant, d&ckish video he posted.

 

Some of the video does make some sense BUT the arrogance that drives me crazy about the man comes shinning thru........it's quite creepy in a way of just how arrogant he gets in this video.

Yes the proof is in the pudding. Or in Wichita Falls Texas. 

Most reviewers never open up a speaker to show what is

inside. For Harbeth Prices I think we deserve both a peak

inside and an analysis of it workings. If you believe in keeping

things out of the signal path, sorry Harbeth disagrees.

Thank you Danny Boy!!! Keep it up!!! 

Yesterday I saw a "response video" here:

https://youtu.be/zxlUYfpxNMY

I've watched Jay previously, and while he dumbs things down often to target a larger audience, you can tell he's worked with many high end systems and is good at calling out concerns that newbies may not know(e.g. cartridge output and phono stage matching). His overall vibe is like many traditional magazine reviews in that the words are 95% positivity, but he drops enough hints to read between the lines to get to the negatives. 

Get your popcorn ready, because he ordered a pair of GR's during the video and promised a full review, which he swears will be unbiased. His overly-defensive sidekick obviously saw a little of himself in Danny's video. This might evolve in a WWE direction. Cheers,

Spencer

to me, the fundamental problem with d-r is his whole approach is to show up others making speakers ... well, i suppose we all need to make a living somehow ... but for me, personally, i would try to find a better way, without the central premise being to sh*t on other people’s lawns

’hey now i am looking out for you, really’.... ’look at these other brand named speaker makers ripping you off, selling you cheap crap’... 'that speaker you bought, well sorry but you were taken to the cleaners'...  ’now that i have your undivided attention, here is where to send me money’...

cue song…The Who….” meet the new boss ( youtube ) , same as the old boss ( print )…..

 

I just sent Danny an email about looking a few sets of speakers I have and if he could either give me some recommendations or if interested in looking at them. We shall see. 
 

honestly didn’t know this conversation was happening until right now. I did hear some of his monitor speakers of his design at the fellow I bought my Burson DAC from. Although he was not playing music I would normally play I will say I was impressed. They are the small version of those huge tower I guess line arrays he builds or sells in kits. 
@blkwrxwgn 

im going to watch that video as soon as my wife stops talking. Ha 

I ordered his B&W 602 upgrade kit. I'm excited and nervous.