Friends hi-fi system not very good, what do you do or say?

people love being told, by an expert, that they are doing it wrong.

gopher it

My 71 year old sister in law has listened to AM radio all her life so any frequency over 5K Hz is 'shrill'.

So when she comes over for a listen I have to turn the treble on my CA-7A NAK pre-amp down all the way and boost the bass all the way up.

At which time she says it's 'perfect'.

Remember folks, SQ is strictly subjective.

people love being told, by an expert, that they are doing it wrong.

gopher it

LOL!  I love that.

I may as what they like about it so they can share the reasons for their choices but unless they ask for advice, I'll just say it sounds pretty good.  It's a safe answer.  :D

Always a polite and positive comment unless the friend specifically asks me to critique their system.

What’s the purpose of the music?

we all have different meanings and taste 

Music is the ultimate drug. It can change your mood,mindset, feelings, personality or emotions in a moment. Our biorhythm get in tune with the beat, chords, vocals and the overall experience. Add in the lyrics and it grabs our soul. The music that lines up with our heart beat, breathing, blood flow, and life beats become or favorite songs.

pls don’t judge 👩‍⚖️👏👍🙏😂

I would say, "That's a really interesting system.  Tell me about it!"  That steers the discussion to how he acquired the equipment, what he likes about it, etc.  People love to talk about their gear.  If he comes over to your house and *asks* to hear your system, let him hear it.  He might be just as "polite," or he might say, "Gee, I like this better," in which case he might ask you to help improve him own system.  

Try to admire what he's accomplished or purchased.  OTOH, if he starts saying "Come on over and we'll do some listening!" then at some point you're going to have to be honest and say that *your* system suits *your* ears better.

I had a dear friend who passed away a while ago.  He had a fabulous record collection, but I never thought his system was all that great.  But I enjoyed having beer/wine with him and talking about this and that, so I let the music spin, made positive comments about the record and the musicians, and left it at that.  OTOH, one of the best musical evenings I ever had was with a lovely gentleman who had a terrific 78 rpm jazz collection and an old KLH Model 12 system with speakers stuck here and there.  Didn't matter a bit, the music was fantastic.

I would say I really like your system and that I have been really stupid to spend so much money on my system and here you have a really nice system. I just wanna listen to music and enjoy that after all.  I wish I was smart as you.

And then they ask you what you have in your system, and of course that’s really what I wanted to express anyway but I did it in a cute sort of way. And then he’ll be complementing me on my system saying I bet it really does sound pretty good you shouldn’t be critical of yourself. Can I come listen to it?

Then I would say if I had to do it all over again I would just buy an integrated receiver with basic speakers and call it a day and be just as happy. Now I drive myself nuts trying to learn more and more and recognizing I really haven’t learned much at all. Truly frustrating experience to pursue this and never get to a point where you’re satisfied with anything. and Looking at my car and saying wow I could’ve done a lot better.

And then the guy is basically providing me comfort for my awesome system and he hasn’t taken offense while we mutually have a common understanding at this point that his system probably isn’t as good as my system. And now he’s envious of me and that’s just fine.

So what? They like it and it is all that matters. 90% of people have audio systems in untreated living rooms, should we suggest them put bass traps around? Do they listen to the same music as we do?

don't snicker....just smile

Easy solution! Have him listen to your system and he will start asking many questions on how to improve his!

@whart

Of course I don’t own a Lambo. But I have owned three Audis. Including a Quattro. Not able to drive anymore I’m stuck in my house.

If I was in your room my criticism would only be that you need a second chair for me to sit in, I’d bring mine which looks just like yours and maybe they would have children together. And then I would spend six hours asking all kinds of questions about your system. It’s a perfect room and all those albums. I would probably ask if I could bring some of my albums over that maybe you don’t have. I think my albums would be much happier with you than with me mostly because I don’t use my turntable anymore. I need to get a phono stage and it’s just not worth it, I have a technics from the 70s it was mesmerizing to watch and I really liked it.

Why do you have two footstools for your chair? Or better what happened to the other footstools better half? That would be one of my first questions.

I have a friend from college who still has the same system he had in the seventies and my brother has all his tunes in his phone and is perfectly happy listening to them through the phones 1/4” speakers. If they’re happy and are still listening to music, I say good on them. 

 I’ve met a lot of people over the years who did interesting stuff in all kinds of fields, so the Lambo question wasn’t bait. Sorry you can’t drive. I kinda quit for a while b/c I live in town, but just bought a vintage bike so I’m gonna get back into the saddle, mainly back roads, not highways.

As to your question about seating, there is a pair of director’s chairs against the back wall of records. Sound there is surprisingly good, and I can pull the one ottoman over to sit next to the "sweet spot" seat. The other Eames lounge is in my living room, where we watch TV and have my vintage system, along with the accompanying ottoman. We use that room as a refuge when I’m not up for firing up the big system-- which takes time to warm up, and I’m reluctant to run it without having time to play it, i.e., not an hour or two, more like a full day of listening.

We have had several houses over the years and eventually downscaled to a small Texas gothic (Victorian) in town. We got rid of a lot of furniture in the course of several moves over a couple decades--- one house was very large, a white elephant--and stuff from that house simply didn’t fit into the last house in NY, which was on the waterfront of the Hudson. But I still have both Eames lounges with Ottomen. I like them, they are real (I collected George Nelson and Charles Eames back in the ’80s’). I always threatened to open a store that sold hassocks, footstools and equivalents under the name "Ottoman Empire."

You are welcome to visit if you come to Austin. I’m generally around. And you are welcome to bring some LPs.

Best,

Bill

There is a phenomenon often experienced at audio shows: an expensive system sucks. Often simply dismissed as just a bad set up or a bad room. There is another possibility. Maybe your ears are tuned differently. Maybe you are the problem. Or rather until your ears adjust to a new system, it may sound off. Too dull, lifeless, boomy, thin and shrill. Sometimes an exact listening position, number of people in the room, or volume can have a huge effect on the overall listening experience. We all bring our owe biases. 

Two possibilities: His system sounds better than yours, so it's going to cost you some money to upgrade. Second possibility is yours is better than his, so say something nice like, "Well it has plenty of bass" or "Those trumpets really stand out", whatever suits the moment.

@whart I would sure stop by with a bottle of Adictivo if I am in the area

@whart 

Nice system you have there Bill.

Thanks, @ozzy62 . @grislybutter - I'm off the sauce but you can have a drink as long as you don't touch the turntable. :)

best to all, the one thing these hobbies/pursuits do in my experience is bring people of varied backgrounds together --when I was involved in auto sports I met a lot of interesting people as well. 

I became a bit of a hermit during Covid and actually enjoyed the quiet time. Now I'm making an effort to get out more and engage with others. I learn a lot from others about life experience. 

Far too many unknowns here to justfiy issuing "advice" on the system.

The friend may have a strong emotional attachment to the gear and would be hurt/devastated with negative comments.  "Hey, those are XYX speakers.  They sound great as long as you don't try to play music through them.  And, that (crusty) old receiver.  Not worth the postage that it took to send it over here from Japan."

One of my favorite church reader boards states: "A good friend stabs you in the front." So, with that "wisdom" in mind, you can just come straight at them with the "truth" related to all things negative about their system -- including the build quality and esthetics.

But seriously, your friend may have arrived a good point in their system in their estimation.  They may have moved past their interest (obsession?) with stereo and now spend their time (and money) in ways that are far more rewarding to them, and their families.  Snapping their attention back on the flaws and shortcomings of their system may be unwelcome (at the very least) could make you look like an inconsiderate ---t, an honor that may be well-deserved.

"Wow! I've never heard a system like this before!" Or, "truly remarkable" may be appropriate responses.  Best approach would be to listen to see if they indicate some issues with their system and ask for suggestions.  Otherwise, leave it alone and move on to the next opportunty(s) to bond with your friend.

OP, You didn't indicate if your friend wanted an opinion or not. If they merely turned it on for background music, case closed. Did your friend give any indication that they wanted your opinion? A few kind remarks could start a good conversation. Talk about music only. If your friend is interested at that point then continue. They may not give a hoot. Ask them if they spend any time in a good listening session. If the answer is "no". invite them to your house for a listen. If you get no spark then that's that.                   Where "audiophiles" are concerned, we should be prepared for criticism. It's part of the deal. Even unsolicited criticism. It only makes us better.

Key point as mentioned is if the friend asked for it desires your opinion on the sound.   If so then help if not then it’s non of your business really.   At least that is how I operate in similar scenarios. 

OP, You didn't indicate if your friend wanted an opinion or not.

@jnovak 

You'll probably never find out. He starts these silly threads and then steps aside to see what comes of them.

https://www.tumblr.com/emergingsoul

DeKay

You started this conversation with an idea that you know what a good system sounds like, and he does not. No offense but, what are the chances you are wrong? 

Another voice in cyberspace that says be nice. Maybe talk about toe in if pressed. KISS. If sincerely asked what they might do, that’s a different story. If they get the bug the rest might follow. 

Why do I get the feeling that the OP would think everybody’s system sounds bad except theirs?

@pkatsuleas 

I haven't heard anybody else's system for years so I have no idea what anybody elses system sounds like.  I just have my imagination to work with.

I'd like to think I have the best system in the world. But then I would be the most naïve person in the world.

What do you do when you visit a friend?  Tell them that their home is lovely or the food is delicious?  Or do you tell them that you have better leftovers in your fridge or your mansion is better than their home?  This is a question of basic decency.

It is the same thing with audio systems.  

If they ask for honest critique I would give it to them. 

I probe with questions:  "Are you happy with the bass level you have? " Depending on the answer, you can either offer advice or just STFU. 

I would probably say, I'm trying to find a diffuser panel aesthetically pleasing and nice looking and doesn't look like everybody else's since they're all buying it from the same place. Something custom would be cool if I could find something I like to look at.  And then the problem is it has to be larger and take up a fair amount of Wall space to achieve any effective results further complicating finding something that looks good.  Of course if you have a lot of furniture in the room probably achieves the same damn thing.

I onced had a former work-mate. I helped him out on a job he simply could not complete. So he asked me to dinner at his home, with his wife. My eyes naturally turned to the T.V. where I discovered his "stereo" was located beneath it. It was an all in one system, an AMSTRAD with the speakers bunched tightly together. Just like as illustrated in the catalogue. I asked him how he played L.P.s as there was no room for the lid to open. He immediately got down on his knees to show me his "stereo". and enthusiastically poked buttons and got the VU meters to work. But did not play any music.

I invited him and his dog, to my home to cook him a meal in return. It was a trap. Before he started to tell me the plot of a drama he watched on T.V. (this is his idea of conversation). I switched my humble system on and loaded the Eagles, One Of These Nights, into the disc tray, tilted the balance to 11 o'clock to put him in the sweet spot. He exclaimed that he thought seperates were not made anymore.

His dog dashed back and fore, ears pricked to see where the sound was coming from. He just sat there silently for 2 minutes, then started to tell me all about a TV drama he had watched.

Eagles speak louder than words. Yes, I became an audio snob that day. There is no reason to comment on the sounds, Just sit back and let the music play.

I haven't heard anybody else's system for years so I have no idea what anybody elses system sounds like.  I just have my imagination to work with.

So this was all just a theoretical question?

"I invited him and his dog, to my home to cook him a meal in return."

You invited him and his dog, but not his wife?! Interesting dynamic.

https://youtu.be/jsfhhpaq4yc?si=xqQmmBruqwypyBAY

Get up and go in another room. Lol just like a hifi store walk out. Lol

Irjones many times that’s what happen. Your friend is not that interested to learn on audio. At times  , their stereo are just there for display.iig happens to me. My friend invited me when Iam new with this hobby. Because i don’t understand the amazing and glorious musicality of his system. I end up also asking Him about their Persian rugs. Five years later I beg him to invite me because this time , Iam more interested and did appreciate his system.

I tend to take the attitude that if they own it and seem to like it, my opinion is irrelevant. I have a friend who is fond of saying "good enough for who it's for" and we all draw the line in the sand that separates acceptable and non-acceptable in a different place. It seems most audiophiles are on the side of its never good enough...and I find it very hard to constantly be dissatisfied.

If asked questions about setup or what I think in general I will respond with polite answers until I am sure they can handle and really want the truth. Then I will offer my opinion. "more power for these speakers wouldnt hurt"  "a bit closer to the wall might help solidify bass response" Moving your listening position out of the bass null in the room will help make for a better listening experience and so on. Not openly critical but suggesting tweaks to make whats there work better. If they are good friends and you know they are open to this by working with them to improve it, you get the satisfaction of helping another person you like along their audio journey. And like the Grateful Dead said, "what a long strange trip its been"

I appreciate and am interested in what somebody has created with their rig and discography. I'm definitely up for a listening session. It's always nice to hear another rig no matter the value of it or experience of its owner. 

This is an easy one.  “sounds nice.”  If your friend likes it, that’s all that is required.  If he asks for suggestions on how to improve it in some way, I would make suggestions consistent with his budget.  I would not suggest a Shunyata Everest ($8K+) for a $5K system, for example. I don’t think that most people really want to hear how others think their system sounds unless they know it is nice.  For example, with my system, which is “high end” but certainly not in the stratosphere, I don’t ask friends.  I just put them in my perfect listening chair and put on music.  100% of the time, they have been blown away (but none of my buddies are audiophiles either).

I'd do the same thing when someone brings a bottle of agonizingly bad wine over.  I'd open a better bottle and let him see the difference.  If he couldn't tell the difference, c'est la vie - end of discussion.

In the case of the audio end of things, I'd invite him to bring over the same record/CD he played and play it on each one of my three systems (which have slightly different strengths and weaknesses) and see what he hears.  

He might turn out to be unable to detect differences (in which case, end of discussion), or they might jump out at him immediately and could start a discussion of why it was different.  Either way, I'd avoid offending him.  Telling someone that their system sucks is like saying his wife is ugly - no coming back from that!

I would say I really like your system and that I have been really stupid to spend so much money on my system and here you have a really nice system. I just wanna listen to music and enjoy that after all.  I wish I was smart as you.

And then they ask you what you have in your system, and of course that’s really what I wanted to express anyway but I did it in a cute sort of way. And then he’ll be complementing me on my system saying I bet it really does sound pretty good you shouldn’t be critical of yourself. Can I come listen to it?

Then I would say if I had to do it all over again I would just buy an integrated receiver with basic speakers and call it a day and be just as happy. Now I drive myself nuts trying to learn more and more and recognizing I really haven’t learned much at all. Truly frustrating experience to pursue this and never get to a point where you’re satisfied with anything. and Looking at my car and saying wow I could’ve done a lot better.

And then the guy is basically providing me comfort for my awesome system and he hasn’t taken offense while we mutually have a common understanding at this point that his system probably isn’t as good as my system. And now he’s envious of me and that’s just fine.

Yeah, I suppose this makes sense if his envy is your goal.

Really though, this seems like grade school playground logic. 

Say nothing. This is not a contest akin to “my bike is better than your bike.” We’re grown ups now. Be happy with your bike. That’s all that matters. 

I am not at my friend's house to review his stereo system.  If it works for him that is all that matters.

Interesting quote from Mark Twain!  Makes you think!

I've been in this situation many times over the years.  I will find something about their system and its sound quality that you can honestly say is good.  It could be that the overall sound quality is terrible, but it probably does something (perhaps only one thing) ok.  That way you are speaking honestly while at the same time appealing to their sense of joy and pride.  In the end, the delivery of music brings joy.

The guy is proud enough of his system to play it for you. I’d be complimentary, why ruin the moment? Then see where it goes.

Thanks @emergingsoul, some fun reading here.

I bought a used Dartzeel last year and two friend's listened while I was not around. They both said it was the greatest amp they'd heard but they could sense some buzzing and lower output on one channel.

At a cost of $3k+ round-trip, the amp was repaired(parts)for free and only charged for labor. Not bad for a mint condition product that was 20 years old. If my friend's hadn't said anything,.... 

@hilroy48 you are 100% correct. I'll second that. Your self-diagnosis is spot on.