speaker upgrade fever

The ones that cost the least but sound the best....money is an object.

I think you'll love the JA's!  Let us know.

Good move on the Pulsars, think that is the right choice, especially with the price. 

Consider GoldenEar and Mofi Source Point.

JA Pulsar 2 graphene monitors - great choice! Looks like a good match from your sonic preferences (jazz, acoustic Americana, Chamber, symphonic) meaning you seem to value acoustical accuracy without sacrificing musicality. Both your Mimas and Pulsar fit the bill.

Please keep us posted - we like to hear success stories or to learn something new

Well when you can find a better speaker than the’ old’ Pioneer S1-ex’s with its S-7ex center let me know.  Maybe the TAD CR’s…maybe

Well, I've decided to buy a pair of JA Pulsar 2 graphene monitors. My rationale, it's RARE to find them available on the used market. I can't pass on a chance to own this speaker at 1/2 retail. They've always. been on my speaker bucket list. Also, there are always Harbeth 30's available if I change my mind.

+1 for Harbeths. I have the 30.1s (large 2-ways) and have heard the 40.1s (even larger 3-ways). Superb, musical sound in both cases.

Hi Larseand, 

I have no idea if you have purchased a new pair of monitors or not but I thought I would at least weigh in on my experience.  I wanted a pair of Focal 1028BE's. However, I had limited space as well.  I found a pair of brand new 1008BE stand mount speakers at Dedicated Audio for $2,999 (1/2 original asking price).  With the Beryllium tweeter I knew they would be on the bright side but by no means are they too bright (no listening fatigue whatsoever).  I did a ton of due diligence regarding matching them with a proper amplifier.  I had a limited budget as well so could not go crazy.  I "settled" on a Hegel H90.  It has been a match made in sonic heaven. I have the Focal sitting on a pair of Sound Anchor stands (look them up) so no need for a sub. I'm currently only streaming using Tidal to a Bluesound Node 2i. I connect the speakers to the amp using Cardas Parsec cables which helps keep the noise floor low as well.  Do I have a vision to upgrade? Of course. My current go to would be T+A 3100HV integrated and Rosso Fiorentino Arno40 floor standers but it changes all the time.  By the way, I did not demo the Hegel with the Focal, I trusted my research and took a risk but it paid off.  Considering your preferred type of music, here are a few suggested options in no particular order: Fyne Audio F1-8 ($10,400), TAD ME1 ($15,400), Fleetwood Seville ($15,600), Franco Serblin Accordo ($14,000) Good luck and all the best in your search.

I have a Mimas. I tried some NOS tubes I preferred the OE tubes for overall balance. I also had my Mimas built with Cardas Rhodium Binding posts. I also use a Shunyata Alpha NR v.2 power cord. My speakers are the Dynaudio Heritage Special. Oh and a pair of REL Classic 98’s . The very limited Dynaudio Contour Heritage would work great, ProAc D48R are great, and the Vandersteen would be excellent. 

If you are looking at the Vandersteen treos, I’d suggest you listen to the Vandersteen Quatro CT’s. Which have better bass and great self amped subs in them already. I think you can find for &14,000 used. Which is a bargain.  

I am the very-happy owner of the Linkwitz LX521.4 system for almost 10 years now. For me, this is my end-game: the spacial and  smooth presentation across the entire frequency band is to die for. You can see my system here: https://linkwitz.store/blog/2023/01/20/new-linkwitz-lounge-in-fremont-ca/

I am NOT a dealer by any means: I agreed to open my home to interested audiophiles, because I am convinced that - once you hear it for yourself - there is no going back to anything else, particularly in this price range. If you are good with your hands, you can built those from an IKEA-like pre-cut flat-pack (that's what I did), saving you about $5K (and have your choice of finish: mine is Lexus Pearl White automotive coating). Note, however: you will need to buy the entire system, including the two PowerBoxes: each Linkwitz driver has its own (ClassD, Hypex N-Core) amplifier, 5 per channel (250W x 2, 200W, 150W, and 100W for the tweeters), which comes to 10(!!) amplifiers total; moreover, each channel has its own active crossover, making sure each driver operates only in its linear frequency range. As said above: the result is a mind-boggling being-there illusion. All you need is a good preamp/phono stage (if you spin vinyl) and/or DAC (I use the impeccable MSB), and you are ready to go. I use a tube preamp/phono stage (Supratek Grange), which gives me the best of both worlds in terms of smooth mid-range and punchy authoritative bass. If you happen to be in the Bay Area, feel free to set up an appointment!

Lots of good brands that will work.  Your amp has good power.  I think I have seen Vandy 4 used for about 10k or so.  Otherwise I would just repeat other recommendations 

I'm an ATC active owner and Focals. I run my atc w Tubes. For me it's tbe perfect balance of detail and musicality. The focal paired w Naim is also unique but the speakers can be interpreted as bright. So I mention my setup for refrence... however if I was interested in moving slightly away from detail to something forgiving and evwn more musicality... Sonus Fabre are going to be my go to. They are gorgeous.... to be honest if I was starting from scratch and trying to decider my setup or SF I'd be torn... I'm already completely committed w Rel subs too and I love my system so I'm not considering anything else. But SF r very impressive for my taste and slightly different flavor. Plus they are gorgeous looking speakers especially in tower. Just a heads up... in tower you sacrifice imaging. I've heard SF bookshelves and they are loud and deep w bass very impressive, I even asked if they had a sub hooked up in which they didn't. Never heard speaker imagine like SF. And if you wanted to add more bass you could c9nder a pair of Rels and maybe have everything you wanted in that setup. 

One last set of advise, if your have tubes I highly recommend NOS tubes. I run 1943 Ken-rads amd I found these to be the best tube nee or old. Deepest bass of all tunes new or old and rich thick mids. And didn't loose any details in tbe highs. Thought I'd mention that. Best of luck

Harbeth and Joseph Audio speakers share some similarities, but are also very different in some ways.

They both do imaging and soundstage very well and are fairly neutral.  Harbeths are less detailed.  Your KEF Ref 1 speakers have more detail than any Harbeth I've owned (I have not had the 30.1, which I think is what you meant you are considering).  The Kefs are also a little bit warmer, Harbeths (depending on the model) can get a little hot at the top end when pushed.

The Joseph Audio speakers will be more detailed than the KEFs or Harbeths, and will have better imaging, to the point where it is almost clinical, as in the instruments and vocals are very defined in space.  I really like this, but there's the possibility of being drawn into the presentation versus being drawn into the music, which is where I think the Harbeths excel.  

I have listened extensively to a friend's system with the JA Pulsar Graphenes and would take those over KEF Referency 1 or any Harbeth speaker I've heard.  I have owned Harbeth Super HL5 Plus, Compact 7, and P3ESR.  I loved them all, with the last two being my favorites.  The same friend that has the JA Pulsar Graphenes also had the Harbeth 40.2.  I remember when he told me had moved on from those, I thought he was nuts.  Until I heard the JA Pulsar Graphenes in his system.

Harbeth is a great speaker, never heard the Pulsar. Just be careful the Harbeth's IMO don't want to be pushed too hard. I heard the basket clink a couple times.

Devore makes great speakers too but get out and listen to them no substitute for that.

I am unfamiliar with the Mimas pairing, but have a pair of Vandersteen Treo CTs and they are incredibly musical.

I actually have KEF Reference 1 and really enjoy them but will be moving to Jean Marie Reynaud. There is a set of Grand Opera for sale locally and I'd own them right now but they are just too big for my space. They are like no other speaker I've either seen or heard. JMR has a particular sound and lushness I've just not experienced with any other brand and I've owned Audio Note, Sonus Faber, Revel & Focal. Anyway, I'm going to get the more manageable Voce Grand; mind is made up. I demoed them in Montreal last fall and although not as big a sound as the Opera, they are mighty good, Jazz & simple uncomplicated music being where they truly excel. Tax return can't come fast enough, lol. 

I had the Treo CT's I thought they were great 

Paired well with the 2 REL S/510's I had

I've narrowed my search down to the JA Pulsar 2 G and a the Harbeth 3.1s Both are used priced fairly. 

I will be very interested hear your results. 

@kclone Disapointig to hear the KEF Reference Series are on the bright side, errr maybe not bright back lacks warmth is a better way of saying it.

I think the OP clarified that he was not saying the KEF's were bright, only that he did not want replacement recommendations for speakers that are bright. 

I have the Ref 1's, I think they are pretty neutral, not overly analytical or warm. They will reflect well the components that precede them.

Interesting thread with lots of insight. One comment had to do with all the equipment affecting how speakers sound which is deserving a lot of attention as well.

Disappointing when the dealers don’t have a wide variety of products to choose from.

The whole audio Business needs to rethink how they display and market their products when the users are very limited and hearing a variety of gear is hindered.

I've narrowed my search down to the JA Pulsar 2 G and a the Harbeth 3.1s Both are used priced fairly. 

Disapointig to hear the KEF Reference Series are on the bright side, errr maybe not bright back lacks warmth is a better way of saying it.  I think the KEF Reference are beautiful looking speakers.  I haven't heard them, but the Rosso Fiorentino speakers, Arno 40, are said to have a lot of clarity but are warm.  Perhaps the best of both worlds.  

for example my comments about the KEF R1 were in a reasonable sized room w a lot of bric a brac diffusion… a very well sorted high quality SWARM and a chain : SOTA > Jelco > Dyna XV-1S > Cary top of line tube phono > Herron line stage and monoblocks… the Digital side 100 % Rockna….

a major dude music lover…. he did trade the for a Gershman..

maybe he will weigh in here…

I don't have any experience with the speakers you mentioned, other than the KEF Reference 1s, which I thought were going to be my forever speakers. 

A few comments - the Ref 1s are anything but "bright".  Not in my system, or in two other friend's systems.  I'm quite sensitive to anything bright.  They are very neutral, and if anything, on the warm side. 

I know the person mentioned in the PS Audio forums that went from the Ref 1 and the FR5s and have listened to their system with both speakers.  The FR5s are more "lively", which for me would have probably translated to "bright" over time.  The ribbon tweeter created a really large soundstage, which is something the KEFs also excel at.  My friend likes them better, I probably would have stuck with the KEFs.  A matter of taste.  The cool thing is that PS Audio has a generous return policy, so you could try them for up to 30 days and return them.

The only speakers in that range that made me want them over the Ref 1s (besides my Gershman Studio XD) were Joseph Audio Pulsar Graphenes.  I'm sure there are other speakers that I haven't heard that are "better" also.  

As much as I love the Gershman Studio XD, I'm not sure I'd recommend them with the Mimas.  They have a similar sensitivity rating to the Ref 1, but are much harder to drive. I had 160 watt monoblocks and they couldn't quite wring out the best from the Gershmans. I replaced them with the PS Audio M1200 Stellar 600 watt monoblocks and am now a happy camper.  The JA Pulsars are easier to drive.

Totally Left field idea,

https://www.amazon.com/Behringer-Ultragraph-Ultra-Musical-Equalizer-Detection/dp/B0002E50XG/ref=sr_1_9?crid=CPAVWE9P5W1F&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.NWtTZ56yzcD1tYonm-EJheUPOqWH1jywTfK7-OSsrUJGEIiWHBygb4qeXQcHl9UiTaGmCIyxzRlesYeeZ0rV3WA3uQzGItZe3Ig1Z6-MzdERrL0vCahDWUAFh5rg2lMEuVWEA29WlF7ruECBpOq3195P-JwEKMdtQbIRzLmRRZgXvkKCQdD73QdQ8CBERsLrD7M5fo6-O637p9xzENKpKEC-mX3qHmJ5Uij4ky619ds.pmBUwsiJpZDaU3KDuLnxodHdPYi6hNOEnu_eylmyang&dib_tag=se&keywords=31+band+eq&qid=1738080943&sprefix=31+band+eq%2Caps%2C181&sr=8-9

For $200 and REW Free software  you can play with your existing speakers EQ.   This would allow you to see what your speakers are actually doing in your room. With that information you can compare any new speaker frequency response to what you all ready have, or with EQ changes a goal response rate.

Keeping the Behringer in you system is totally optional in the future but can be a useful tool for where you are now

Good Luck and Enjoy The Music

I second the recommendation for Borresen X3. You'll be hard pressed tO find better value for the price. 

Spatial Audio X4 P2 would be my choice.

Legacy Focus SEs. Check them out.

also ruling out a speaker without a discussion of system and room context is IMO close to worthless….

for example my comments about the KEF R1 were in a reasonable sized room w a lot of bric a brac diffusion… a very well sorted high quality SWARM and a chain : SOTA > Jelco > Dyna XV-1S > Cary top of line tube phono > Herron line stage and monoblocks… the Digital side 100 % Rockna….

a major dude music lover…. he did trade the for a Gershman..

maybe he will weigh in here…

my TAD on factory stands take up a larger footprint than the svelte floor standers they replaced…. some thinking and measuring might be in order before w wholesale rule out…. ymmv

enjoy the search

note i’m not recommending what i own…. but then… 

I got rid of my KEF Reference 5’s because I thought they were bright and quite analytical and replaced them with Sonus Farber Amati G5’s.  While the price is above your price range, I would still say to check out the Sonus Farber Olympica Nova ll (new $11k, used $5-9k) If you can find used the Olympia Nova lll used.  Or maybe the Sonetto Vlll ($8k new)

All the best.

Fischer and Fischer has a model around $11,000

If I had to blind upgrade from my KEF Reference 1's tomorrow, I would go with something from QLN, either the new One's or the Signature stand mount. I heard their top model at AXPONA last year, it was the best room at the show. As @gryphongryph said, there is little chance of fatigue and they sound great.

Must stay away from bright, analytical and clinical presentation. Room size 12’x19’. Music is jazz, acoustic Americana, Chamber, symphonic etc.

You want Fritz. In a lightly treated room they are pretty amazing.

Also, can't imagine your tastes and wanting to go with Triangle.  They'd hurt my ears, but let your own tastes decide.

QLN, never fatigued.

Thanks for all of your input folks. Many of the suggestions morphed into full range floor standing speakers that I don't think I have the physical space for.

I'll continue to find a monitor that meets my needs, no shortage of great options and suggestions.

Nice to see you mention Triangle which I believe are too often overlooked. If you are considering (especially) the 40th Anniversary Duettos I can't imagine you'd not be terribly pleased. I find them balanced, neutral, open, and so holographic that at times they can be nearly frightening. Fabulous speakers!

The Borresen X-3’s are a laid back but highly detailed sound and look Beautiful in white. You’ll have a love affair with them. There’s a reason people are talking about them....9K

I've seen a few reviews on the DeVille. Is the SQ worth the extra money?

Since you mentioned the Vandersteen Treo, which is a great speaker, may I recommend considering a good pair of used Vandersteen Quatro CT's. The Music Room had (perhaps still has) a pair for about $8.2k. 

I have the Quatro's and find them to be very good and work well with th kind of music you stated that you prefer. I share those same preferences. 

if that's not possible or preferable, then the Treo CT's would be just great.  

Best of luck to you!

I’ll second the Joseph Audio Pulsar’s. The fit, finish, design, quality construction/materials and overall sound quality for a bookshelf speaker is outstanding. You can’t go wrong with JA. These are far superior to the DeVore O/baby. Of course, the baby’s are less expensive. Both speakers need stands. Have fun and take your time. 

Based on your gear, music preferences and desire to stay away from anything too bright , I would take a serious look at both of these:

Fyne F1-8

Fleetwood Deville (used)

My room is treated, room size rug with 2 wool pads under it.. (5) 2x4 acoustic panels placed as best the room allows...

Would you consider a mint condition Vandersteen 5A set of speakers?  With new batteries in the crossovers, good for another dozen years?   

The Treo are easy to setup. Wringing the last bit out of most speakers rewards attention to detail. Leica or Bosch laser are essential tools in the kit.

Have fun. Enjoy the music.

@larseand

The Dynaudio Contour 30i will give you what you seek. Huge sound, super smooth and never fatiguing or analytical.

FYI I am not a fan of the KEF REF 1 ! 

???Room treated????

Sonus Faber, Tanny's or maybe Khorns?

Zlone, you are spot on! I'm looking to move up the chain and want to stay away the bright side... I actually don't think the KEF is overly bright.

Off topic, I owned a pair of Focal electra 1028be floor standers, even with the beryllium tweeters, it was too bright for me. I know that Focal has that reputation, but I was still surprised. This the downside of being 4-5 hours away from an old fashioned audio shop and not being able to A/B anything before pulling the trigger...

Following with interest as I have KEF Reference 1’s myself and am thinking about upgrades. Our music tastes align as well. I honestly think that they will be tough to beat. 
 

Just to clarify, reading your post, I don’t think you are saying that the KEF’s are bright, only that you want to stay away from bright speakers to replace them. Am I correct?