What do you have now, and what improvements/sound characteristics are you looking for?
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My first recommendation would be the Audio Research I-50. Extremely musical and detailed. Gets everything right. Especially engaging. It is right on your budget. The really good thing about this is that it is competitive in the $10K integrated market. If you can get into the $10K market via buying used, I highly recommend it. The $10K market offers strikingly better performance than the $5K market. I highly recommend listening to Pass. They have the fast response of solid state, with great rhythm and pace (although definitely not at the level of the Audio Research) making them really impressive.
There is also Luxman… I will admit to having high hopes for them and have been very disappointed at the trebly detail and poor midrange… the sound has not moved me at all. I have listened to their top level amp and a couple of integrated including the $10K integrated… to me, very disappointing. But that is me. I have been at this for fifty years and superficial flash will not get me.
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I currently have: Primaluna EVO 400 integrated Lampizator Atlantic 3 DAC Daedalus custom-made speakers For those unfamiliar, Daedalus would be in the sonic personality range of Harbeth, et al. Fabulous for vocal, wonderful wood tones, transparency, and clarity. Although I could live with the Primaluna (about 5k), I am exploring other alternatives. That's the gist of it. |
I am familiar with the Daedalus speakers, very good quality. You have a highly regarded DAC as well. Your speakers are pretty high sensitivity and easy to drive. Thus, you don’t need a ton of power to drive them properly. You can focus on the quality of the amplifier. Given the caliber of your audio system, I’d recommend a high quality pure class A tube circuit. For example, Audio Hungary Qualiton integrated amplifiers. Audio Note OTO,or SOROS these are available as push-pull and single ended. Rogers High Fidelity 65v2, they have other models as well.
these fit within your stated budget and are all high-quality/well engineered tube class A “integrated “ amplifiers. I believe they would sound splendid with your current system. Charles |
Daedalus owner here…some easy recommendations. LTA UL + integrated amp or Modwright KWA 100 + LS 100 which I just saw come up for sale here. I like the LTA better but both can be had at your price point and both are favored by Lou and other Daedalus fans. Also, call Lou and ask him what else he might suggest. |
Thanks, everyone, for very good suggestions. I'll be looking at each of those. Yes, the LTA Ultralinear + gets a lot of support. It was also suggested by Lou of Daedalus and others. Before finalizing anything up ahead, I just wanted to see what others might weigh in on it. I do want to say that the Primaluna is a very fine unit. It's given me some wonderful evenings over about a year. I cant' help but think that there's just a bit more of it that I could gain in an upgrade. Again, thank you to all for your thoughtful suggestions! All the best. |
I bought an Aric Audio Transcend Push Pull a few months ago and I’ve been delighted with it. Pure class A, triode or UL, variable gain and feedback using quality pots. You can run KT150, KT120, KT88, or El34 interchangeably, with varying power output, of course. I prefer KT150. Auto bias. Dead quiet. Sounds rich, dynamic, detailed, linear. For reference, I run several systems, two of which are SET-based (high quality 2a3 and 300b amps). This is probably the best sounding push pull amp I’ve used, and I owned a VAC 300.1a for six years, and also have a Manley Stingray II, which is El84 PP. With the upgraded Jupiter caps and a few other extras, it came in at $5k flat. A serious bargain. Aric is a genuine pleasure to work with and he really cares.
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I would go for Atma Sphere MP-3 preamplifier + Atma Sphere M-60 tube amps. MP-3 is also the best preamplifier you can have for your money and probably the best value for $$$ in audiophile world. If you need more power or you want to save some USD, you can replace M-60 with Atma Sphere Class D. Deadalus speakers usualy have 8 or 6 ohms and, more importantly, a flat impendence curb. In this situation OTL amplifier such Atma Sphere M-60 shall work just fine, and will provide you all benefits of the tube technology without any disadvantage. Speaking in general, tube amps are happy with high efficiency / high impendance speakers. A good tube preamp such MP-3 will sound (much) better than almost any solid state preamp. Keep in mind that preamp is the "conductor" of the system. |
@gregjacob The LTA Ultralinear + is on sale for 10% off until April 30. I noticed that when i researched it FWIW. You save $765 |
Are you speakers sensitive enough for an SET? that is a key question. Tube amps are divided into 2 classes, SET and class A/B. SETs are the main venue of "tube amp magic". Stay away from primaluna and other amps built on circuit boards. Go with simple point to point circuits. Get Manual bias control. Look for the simplest circuit with the fewest components in the signal path as possible. Jerry |
From PL website: PrimaLuna uses ceramic tube sockets secured to ventilated steel plates that are bolted to the chassis. The entire signal path, including resistors and capacitors, is painstakingly hand-wired with heavy gauge cable by craftspeople. In our EVO 300 and 400 models, we even use Swiss-made silver-plated oxygen-free copper cable with a Teflon dielectric in the entire signal path. The result is a product that sounds amazing and lasts for decades. J.Chip |
It's going to depend a lot on the kind of sound you prefer. I have owned several of the amps suggested here by others and liked things about each one, but they are also all different. My favorite by far in the upper end of your range (and well beyond) is the Synthesis A100 or its little brother, the A40. Both of these units also have an excellent onboard DAC, although you could try it compared to your Lampizator to determine your preference. While the Synthesis amps do not seem to get as much attention in the forum as others, those who do have them seem to love them as much as I love mine. I highly recommend adding it to the list of amps you are considering.
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Daedalus has been pairing with LTA at audio shows for several years now so it 's a natural match. I quite liked their Z10 integrated last time I heard it at CAF. As usual @charles1dad has some excellent suggestions the AN Oto in particular is a sweet little integrated. |
It would be helpful, as others have brought it up, what part of the sound are you trying to change. What makes you think the amp change will help get you there? In other words, what are you looking for more/less of in any way? A few more answers might help the crew here to help guide in a direction or two.
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Again, to everyone, thanks so much for the feedback. I want to try to wrap up this thread by saying: 1. I've been super pleased with the PrimaLuna EVO 400. It has wowed everyone who has come by to listen. Those PrimaLuna contributors who have written in can vouch for the fan base and build quality. 2. When you have reached a certain level in this deep-hole hobby, you can't help but wonder what other marvels and fine-tune magic you might be able to squeeze out of your system. I opened this up not to belittle a really fine, highly respected, and awarded amp but rather to see what veteran advice might surface. My first choice when setting up the system was the LTA Ultralinear+ but I was buying all of the components at once and just couldn't afford the extra $$ to reach it. (I failed to mention I use an Innuos Zenith MK3 for streaming). PrimaLuna seemed like a great alternative for a few thousand less and still is. Of course, something inside wants to pop a higher-priced, well-regarded tube amp into my current system and environment for the A/B comparison... If for no other reason than to conclude that more money did not provide any significant gain. Finally, again, thank you for great suggestions. I'm sure all these amps would please many listeners. For those who lean more toward the tube (particularly ultralinear) sound, it's just a fun comparative conversation. I will close my participation in this thread. It was not to "beat a dead horse", just an enjoyable exploration. All the best! |
I have an LTA Ultralinear+ that I am parting with. It's not a great fit with the rest of my system, or the direction I am going, but it would have a lot of synergy with yours. PM me and I will give you a deal on it. With the Daedalus speakers you know you have at least one component you are never going to want to upgrade. Some of the best speakers I have ever heard. -Steve |
Thanks Steve. Your Tannoys look impressive and you have a Decware amp I got in line for but gave up due to production times and bought the PrimaLuna instead. I am not ready to purchase a new amp quite yet, even a reduced-priced LTA (very tempting). If you haven't sold it in six months, I'd be ready to make an offer. Currently renovating an old farmhouse (with new music room) and am hemorrhaging $$ in several directions. I'd be willing to buy it later and hold on to the PrimaLuna as well but not yet... Thank you. -- Greg |
OP, have you rolled your Evo 400? I'm assuming "yes" but if not, then I would start there. For me, it was like having a brand new amp. I went with KT-150s for power and Radio Techniques (highly rec) in the front two slots and Mazda Cliftes on the sides. I listen to mostly rock but also some jazz and electronic. |
Laynes, I have not ventured into rolling, neither with the EVO 400 nor the Lampizator Atlantic DAC. I honestly can't think of one thing I'd change with the Lampi. With my system and ear, it still remains my favored DAC. Along with the Daedalus speakers, I have no curiosity to vary. I tried a bunch of DACs, and none had quite the magic of the Lampi, so leaving it alone. Thanks for the specific tube suggestions for the EVO. I would love to see that effect and do plan on exploring if I keep it, which I may do, and just add another amplifier for a different combo. |
The fundamental distinction is SET/SEP and push-pull tube amplifiers. Push-pull can be class AB but also pure class A as well. SET (DHT) SEP (Pentode) are class A by default. For example, the tube push pull amplifiers I had suggested earlier are class A circuits. Granted that class AB is the more common circuit approach. Charles |
As touched on by @laynes: When considering your budget for a tube amp I think you should be aware of possible extra costs for new/old tubes. When you go to your limit with the amp itself but soon find that new 300Bs would be something then that´s serious extra costs. |
@charles1dad I don’t want to argue semantics and even yield that you are probably correct in the way you define it. (pentode vs ultralinear). but to me the sound isn’t that much different between them. I recommend the simple, single output tube per channel, directly heated triode, single ended, tube amp to get the nimble, crystal clear, and dynamic sound we chase. But you have to have speakers that are compatible. BTW, I own an excellent example of the pentode push-pull amp that sounds excellent. I'll be getting rid of it in favor of the SET I prefer. Jerry |
The Octave v70 SE is excellent. Here’s a review fyi… https://www.soundstageultra.com/index.php/equipment-menu/423-octave-audio-v-70-se-integrated- There’s one used available now that’d save you mucho $$$… Another good one to look into is the Audio Hungary A50i. Best of luck. |
To be clear it was not my intention to argue semantics. I was just pointing out that tube amplifiers can be either single ended (SET and SEP) or push pull (PP). Furthermore PP can be class A or class A/B. Perhaps I interpreted your post incorrectly. But it seemed to suggest only class A/B amongst non SET amplifiers. I was attempting to supply clarification. For the record, I am also an advocate of SET amplifiers and an extremely happy long term owner of 300b mono blocks. I concur with your sonic assessment of SET with appropriate speaker pairing. Charles |
Audio Mirror Reflection 45s SET monoblocks for $5K. One of the best bargains in audio today. You can add the Audio Mirror Linea preamp for $3K that replaced my $12K reference grade preamp. Vlad is great to work with and stands behind his products 100%. Can’t say enough good things about Vlad and his products. https://www.audiomirror.com/product-page/45w-mono-blocks-set-class-a
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@charles1dad Thanks. BTW, I forgot that @brandonw is on here. I would definitely recommend a custom amp from his Apollo Audio Systems to meet the OP's desires.. Jerry |
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+1 on The Octave To consider: Rogue Audio Pharaoh II integrated (Tube/Hypex hybrid) Rogue Audion RP-1 with PS Audio class D M700 Mono Blocks Modwright KWH225i Hybrid integrated on on usaudiomart Tubed pre of choice around $2K with used Bryston 4B or 3B cubed amp. NOTE: The Bryston Power Amps come with a 20 year warranty. |
@boxertwin12 I have a Decware ZMA, a UFO and am on the waitlist for a 300b. In the mean time I’m having a custom amp made which will probably replace all of them. but they are hard to beat. I would recommend the 300b but there are so few out there that they are unheard of on the secondary market and 2 years out on the waitlist. I’ve owned 3 different Decware amps so far, all bought on the secondary market.
Jerry |
Carver Blackmagic 25s, mono them, ~$4000 for two. Have yet to hear the RAM285, but good reviews from Axpona, 85w/ch. $4995 unless you get in early for the $1000 off the first 50 orders. |
@charles1dad and @carlsbad2 excellent discussion I'll just say I found myself dissatisfied with tubes amps until I heard my first pushpull Class A triode wired amp, since then I've never wanted anything else. 😉 |
@gregjacob I have never owned a primaluna but have heard a couple. I wasn't impressed, I concluded it was the amp, but I have to be honest that it was other peoples' systems. for a true test, it would be much better to drop one into my system so I would be able to control the other variables. the ZMA is a point to point wired vs printed circuit board for the primaluna. Primaluna. The PL is a bit of a swiss army knife with all the features, but that in my opinion degrades the signal. The ZMA's strong point's are the huge power supply and simple signal path. I am a big fan but I don't need so much power and am fixated on the simple SETs now. Yes, i will be listing it for sale soon but I am not offering it for sale yet. I know there are a lot of Primaluna owners out there. This is my opinion only. I'm just a guy and my opinion is worth what you pay for it so don't be offended. the custom amp is a 6 figure amp with hand wound transformers and some amazing features. I am very lucky to be able to purchase it. I have heard the layout version of it and it is already the best amp I've ever heard. Jerry |
Seattle HiFi has new and a lot of demos http://seattlehifi.com/demos/?audio-research-i-50-tube-integrated-amplifier-red
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