The damper, the tension wire and cantilever position

This question is for Dover. I would prefer our ''heighest authority'' Carr but

am reluctant to bather his with possible silly question. Dover however,

whom I regard as ''second authority'' , is used to answer also silli questions.

Now my assumption is that damper to which coills are ,say, pressed

by tension wire  balance cantilever/stylu combo in  ''all directions'';

left and right and above and below . BUT they also MUST FOLLOW


My observation however is that also ''deviant'' cantilevers which

nobody would buy look STRAIGHT IN DE GROOVE. Ergo:: it is

the groove which determine cantilevet/stylus position .?


@nandric  Welcome Back.

Good to see you are pondering the Mechanical Interfaces within a Cartridges Assembly.

I have many discussions on this subject behind me.

It is the one subject that pretty much suggests each Cart' is unique in how it presents a signal as a result of the condition of these interfaces. 


Dear pindac,  Am I supposed   to search in the ''endless'' MM thread for

your discussion on ''this subject'' or other ''discussions''? 

Thera are, generaly speking, two mothods for learning. One is ''from

our eperience'', the other ''from our errors''. I wil ''eleaborate'' on the later.

Those usualy start with some confession. My is that I spend an

fortune on straigthening the cantilevers by cartridges which I purchased

with strath cantievers. .The first question was why my friend retipper

Axel Schurholz  as well my new friend retipper from Poland never told

me that this was not , say, necessary? But the other question provided

the answer: why should they? 

The other question is more difficult to answer: what or how deed al

those straith cantolever become ''deviant'' . The only answer is that

some of my cartrideges felt negloected. Mind you I owned +60 samples.

As everybody else  I had also  my darlings. 10 of those ''pre-adjusted''

in their own headshell such that I was able to change them in 5 min.

time on my beloved FR-64 S. (''S'' for steel as well SILVER). .

But I need to wait for Dover In order to check my presupposition. 


@nandric Certainly no need scour through Archive Threads for my contributions.

I have and do communicate outside of this forum with some very adept EE/Engineers and Technicians who are a forte of knowledge on these subjects.

There is enough information gathered to suggest a Cart' at the time of production will have +/- tolerances allowed for as the assembly is finalised.

There is also plenty to suggest once the Cart's is in use in a particular environment and subjected to the practices of a variety of users, the variances that can develop to the assembly of parts can be very very broad.

Have a look at some of the Images supplied of Cart's that have been supplied to receive a refurb, and in many cases it can be seen the environment and attitude to the Cart' from the user, has resulted in a very undesirable condition being witnessed.

In a nut shell, New Cart's mechanical interfaces, can have mechanical interfaces that are quite unlike a New Cart's in a very short space of time.

I am an advocate of a Annual Service/Refurbish if optimum performance is the desired state for the Cart' whilst it's parts are still quite fit to perform their selected riles.   

Dear Nandric, are we to understand your cantilevers become ’deviant’ while stored as a result of being neglected? Sure enough these little devils can seem to have a mind of their own, but this does ’stretch’ the imagination a teeny bit.

I’m only a reasonably well informed amateur and no expert like Dover, but my own ’experience’ (which definitely includes errors) seems to suggest that deviant cantilevers can be the result of two things: incorrect alignment of the cartridge forcing a straight cantilever in a skewed position or excessive anti skating pulling the arm outside and dislocating the cantilever. In both cases they need to be used.

I’m a bit of a cheapskate so I tend to buy previously owned cartridges, mainly directly from Japan. Sometimes they come with deviant cantilevers, in which case I have them checked by Kilian Bakker of holistic audio. If the deviation is minor this can usually be set straight as most cartridges have some manouvering space of the motor assembly to allow some minor realignment. But in some cases, like the Mutech and Transfiguration carts, the construction is very different and in these cases the tension wire has been bent out of shape. The only solution then is to have it ’factory’ rebuilt, if such still exists. The cheap and ’amateurish’ way to sort of correct this is to adjust the placement of the cart in the headshell to a position in which the cantilever ’looks’ straight on your alignment tool. This may look a bit weird, but it works without any obvious sonic penalty. Obviously this presupposes that the stylus is positioned correctly on the cantilever, which experts agree is not always the case. So I wouldn’t loose too much sleep over this.

edgewear, Thanks to be so kind not to take my ascription to fysical

things their own will. I am certainly not Kantian. But I need to correct

your  assumtion about my ''negletcion'' of my ''collection'' of  + 60 carts..

I stated this for them . Those wich are never or only occasionaly

used have the right to feel neglected. What  other possibility for

revenge could they have? All other things are not movable.

I wish you were my neighbour so I could be put you in front

of my Kiseki Agaat ( ''the beauty''')  before connecttion with

the grooves and in the grooves during the act of playing.

You would  than trust your own experience as usual . I will 

however not propose such ''expiment '' to Raul...

because I know his answer in advance :'' it is all about



Haha, I have over 30 of them, so I’ll be on the watch for their revenge. Thanks for the warning! I owned the Agate and still own a Lapis Lazuli (albeit refurbished by vdHul with boron cantilever). Both Kiseki carts have fairly long cantilevers and a relatively high compliance in relation to their body mass, so I would assume the record grooves will be able to force their cantilevers into a ’straight’ position without too much stress on the moving parts assembly. This would probably be more difficult with cartridges that have a much lower compliance. Do you experience the same behaviour with those as well?

@edgewear It was a sad day when Kilian Bakker informed his UK Customers he was not to offer his services direct with this Country.

I do have work associates who live in Holland and Eastern France nr Belgium, so a opportunity to create something may be able to be organised in the future.

It was Kilian who was the first to inform me about airborne Metal Particulate contaminating coils, and even shorting them, when the impact is catastrophic, it can pretty much become a channel loss. This is not an issue with a particular Cart’, it has potential to commence occurring from the day a New Cart’ is put to use.

At present I am very infrequent with using my preferred Cart’, (rebuilt by Kilian), when put to use, it is approx’ one Albums Side before the Damper seems to develop a elasticity that performs with an attraction, and a good hour of use before the presentation is seemingly back to its earlier self.


Dear edgewear, I am  willing to exchange 30 of my cartridges for your Lapis

Lazuli. You will than get 60 and I ONLY 30 cartrideges. The inventor of the

whole Kiseki story was aware of the problem. For thiese who could not

afford  Lapis Lazuli he produced the so called ''poor man Lapis Azuli.'. Aka

Black heart . The ''on;y'' difference being boron cantiler and wood instead 

of diamond cantiever and Lapis  Lazuli jewel, Only available in Afganistan,

I am not sure  if I should inform youa bout this. But ''at present'' as Marlene 

Ditrich stated wondering why American women are so poorly clothed

''at present one can get decent clothes for ony 100000 $''

My assertion was ''based o induction''.  Like sky is the limit in America

so everyone can become rich in America, I as mentioned I spend a fortune 

on  my cruked cantievers so the only one with such ''deviation;'' is my

Kiseki Agaat. This is common practice at present. Becouse Russia 

invaded Ukraine all European country expact Russian invasion. So all

of them increased military spending and souranded Russin Nord borders.

But meanwhlle there is invasion   from the oppistww side with imigrants

from all Africa an midle East. Withouth any weapons. So tehy know how

to defend thesemlf from Putin but have no idea how to defend themself

from the imigrants. I fear USA has similar problem?


I guess this is not the place to 'delve into' the reasons for the terrible mess sapiens  has got itself into, so I won't.

Your offer to hand over 30 of your cartridges for my LL is very tempting, but having over 30 is already exceeding the bounderies of sanity. Besides, I wouldn't want to have another 30 of them looking to get their revenge. My LL sample has an interesting history, but now with its boron cantilever it's nothing more than a Blackheart with a very fancy dress.....

Having a real difficult time understanding the OP’s question, or point here:


Now my assumption is that damper to which coills are ,say, pressed

by tension wire  balance cantilever/stylu combo in  ''all directions'';

left and right and above and below . BUT they also MUST FOLLOW


This description applies to many MC carts, and many Audio Technica carts. Not so much to a great many MM carts. 

“Damper to which coils are pressed” ONLY applies to MC carts, a very narrow application. 

So, are we talking about weakening of the damper? Elongation of the tension wire? 

Every cantilever must have a spring force, and a damper. Some styli use a spring and damper in the same suspension (elastomer block). AT uses a tension wire spring and a donut damper ring. Shure used a spring tension wire, and an elastomer block for damping and high frequency spring; Stanton used a variation of this, as did Empire.

Loss of damping over time can occur, and depends on the elastomer compound. In all cases, there has to be a force (spring) to return the cantilever to its neutral position after every excursion forced by groove modulations. A loose damper will hamper this. 

I have 163 cartridges, most I have repaired or rebuilt the stylus assemblies myself.

wolfie 62,

Curious that you answer the question about the ''subject matter''

which you don't understand. 

The most MC carts have an cover plate above the genarator but

some are nacked or as EMT by wich the  genrator is visible.

On the generator one can see ttwo srews on both sides. Those are .

I assume , to ''center '' the cantilever. The tension wire is fastened in

the so called ''joint pipe'' (aluminum tube) in which front side cantilever

is  gluead and coils at its back  side.. Those are called ''the moving  parts''..

The moving parts are connected with the generator on which front side

the damper function as a part ''between''. The usual wire is piano

string  fastened at the back side of the generator. At this end of the

generator the wire can''t be reached or (re) adjusted. But one the 

body of the generator there are two srews which are the only pssible

means to ''correct'' the wire. tension.  If, say, the cantlever ''devition ''

is on the left side the screw on the opposite side can be used to ''center''

the cantilever. One can put tjis also ''otherwise'', Say the damper left side

is as function of time weakened so by pressure on the tension wire

one can compensate the weakening of the damper on this side. 

Your other question is about ''generality'' by which you mean ''ALL

KINDS OF CARTS'''. Say MM as well MC. To me this is like

comparing apples with pears. Or to understan MM thread ''stricto

sensu'' in the sense ''not allowed for MC kinds''. But J.Carr proposed

to include OTHER  KINDS in thie ''MM''  thread. 


ANTI-SKATE involved in the ASSERTIONS (aka ''premise''). We all

think in the same way:  from premise to conclusions or deduction.


the LOGIC rules: wrong premise = wrong deductions or conclusions,

There is consensus in our forum that  there is no consensus about


My first test record contained an part between grooves without grooves.

The so called ''blank-side''. To get the ''right skate'' the stylus should 

stay in the same position; aka no skating of any kind= ''REST''.

Van den Hul was the first who, to my knowledge, warned against this

assumption (=premise). I was shoked because I owned my first tonearm

Sony 237 toghether  with ADC 25 . The assumption was ''the hiigher the

price the better product''. According to the Emglish saying: ''I am not

rich to buy cheap stuff''. My Sony had an ingenious provision for anti-

skate designed to work in accordandance to record surface distaces.

Even the stylus shape was accounted for. Curiously ( ?) there was no

''copycat'' of this invention. Ergo : in the GROOVE cantilever/stylus combo

work different as on or at ''blank side''.  Well the their TASK is to follow the

GROOVE. I..E the groove has , so to speak , the ''leading function''.

That is how I got my conclusions.



Logic apply for all languages while each languge has its own grammar Try to

state  whaever withouy ''X is P'' simple grammar construction. That is

the known ''subject is predicat'' costruction. Very poor for science. 

Try to get some lessons in logic. 

boxcarman, I made an mistake. Logic is to much to ask. Check instead  ''staw man''

strategy by ''discussion.'' . 

This post makes me tired.

And thankful that I only have two needles.

Of which I'm sure both are set up incorrectly.


Assertion that anti-skate causes crooked cantilevers IMPLY that NO ánti-skate 

dees  the same in opposite  direction. .


Curious that you answer the question about the ''subject matter''

which you don't understand. 

No. Curious that I had to “assume” what the OP was asking. And now you’re “assuming” you KNOW what the OP was asking…

So how do you “know” I answered him correctly, or NOT???

You don’t. Actually, you have no idea one way or the other, yet you find latitude to criticize me. 

That’s RICH!!!!


Dear edgewear,

I forget to mention to you in the context of Lapis  Lazuli this. There is an

italiaan admirer of Kisek's with the name Alesandro. For his Lapis lazuli

which he listed on '''' he asked 10000 euro. This anyway

imply money value as valutation of this  cart.

wolfie 62, The thread is about dampers, tension wire and position of

the cantilever. You had nothing to say about any of those. The sense

of any discussion are the ''topics'' in caus.

Dear nandric, I recently had contact with Alessandro about another cartridge. He's a nice gentleman and certainly must be one of the biggest collectors out there.

To return to topic, most cartridges with skewed cantilever I've seen are bent to the left (with front view). This suggests that the arm was pulled outward with too much anti skating force. So I follow the advice of vdHul and others to use it sparingly. I have anti skating set at around 1 grams and tend to leave it there.

Again I ask you, do you also experience the behaviour of the cantilever being forced into the 'correct' position by the record groove with (very) low compliance? cartridges? 

And does this tell us anything about the pros and cons of cartridge compliance and how much of it is needed to get the best possible performance?

The Cart' is designed as a Sacrificial Component, where the first in confirming this, is the Styli and the environment it is to function in. It is expected by the designer, manufacturer, retailer, and end user to lose its perfection and become a inferior part.

Lesser known is whether the Armature, either formed from a Metal or Mineral, is able to maintain its pre-use properties as a result of exposure to the Styli's function within the Groove. Are the Armature materials able to resist fracture or other signs of deterioration as a result of energies being transferred through them.

Typically a Armature has a part utilised where it interfaces and is attached. Again this is one other place where a fragility is present. Again it is not common knowledge if such a interface/attachment can lose its designed properties, as a result of the connection being exposed to the energies transferred from the function of the Styli and Armature as a whole. 

A Damper will evolve in how it performs as a elastic, it will become a material that has desirable properties and will at some time lose its desirable properties for the elasticity it can offer.

The Tension Wire pretty much speaks for itself, it is supplied with a Tension applied. There will most likely be tolerances in place for the range of tension to be applied. This in itself will be a condition that can create a slight change to a sonic. The Gauge of the Tension Wire and the stresses applied to the wire whilst trying to maintain the Armature to remain within a operational envelope will at some point loosen of the Tension on the Wire.

All Cart's in general seem to have reports made about them, that a usage period has been required for the Cart' to have been 'Run In'. Some will claim a Cart' did not require a a 'Run In'.

It is generally accepted that a Damper is the material being effected by the early period of use and is the materials to become optimised in its elastic properties chosen for the Cart's design.

Is it not also possible that the Tension Wire is being impacted on by being exposed to the early period of usage and is also developing into a part that is optimised for the Cart' to perform as per the design.

If either of the above is with a proportion of correctness as a description, it leans towards the notion, the Body is the only part that is not to be detrimentally impacted on by regular use of a Cart.

It is also a possibility the Generator can deteriorate over time and not measure in the same capacity it had shown when first put into use.   

A Cart' is undoubtedly a part that is to deteriorate, it is a part expected to need replacing/overhauling as a result of usage, it is a part that can not maintain a condition once held at a previous time.

Is the commonly quoted guideline of 1000hrs usage, the only period required to be  to be considered for a Cart' to be selected for undergoing a treatment to revive the optimised performance from the Cart'? 

If this thread were able to clearly define the period of time for which a part of the Cart' will be the first to need a replacement part or attention as a service, to maintain a previous optimised working condition, that would be a useful info.          

Dear edgewear, you may be also interested in HIS as well my ''suspicion''

about misterious  Mr. Fokadu? My is Kondo san. The reasons : he was the

only friend in Japan of Van den Dungen. They shared the obssesion with

tubed  tubed amps. Anyway it is cetrain that he designed all 3 Kiseki

transformers. . For those who ''long for an Kondo SUT'' but can't afford

one the chance to get one Kondo for aa bargain price (grin).

Alesandro think that Dynavectro made them based on the PARTS.

But ,say, Benz produce qll paarts except cantilever/styus combo.

Van den Hul buy all ''his'' parts from Benz. The other also,say 

Brinkmann. The ''problem'' with Alesandro is tha Nandric is as

self-willed as Alesandro. 

Dear pindac, You remind me of ''pubic servants'': why simple if complex

is possible.? My short question is what function have those two screwa on

each side of the generator? Each of my crooked cantiever was corrected

by either Axel Schurholz  or my new Polish 'rettier''. The Polish one much

cheaper because East Europeans need (more)  time to accommodate to

Western prices. If this job is so easy to do there must be some easy way to

fix the problem. ''Easy'' means ''simple''?

Dear Nandric, I know about those stories but as long as Van den Dungen remains silent we will never know the truth. It's not in my nature to serve both sides of an argument, but this might be an exception. Why?

Well, most Kiseki's (Blue, Purpleheart and Agate) were high impedance systems, which could point in the direction of Dynavector, whose systems were mostly high impedance. Probably because they used exceptionally thin coil wire, which required more turns. The Blackheart and Lapis on the other hand were low impedance systems (around 5 ohms), so different coil wire and possibly also magnets were adopted. The Kondo (then Audio Note) cartridges were also low impedance designs, so you could be right in believing that vdD asked his friend Kondo to built these top systems to his specifications. But this is pure speculation.

The armature to which the cantilever is connected should remain symmetrically in the magnetic gap. Assuming the cantilever is installed correctly perpendicular in the armature it should remain perpendicular to the face of the cartridge while tracking the record. You always set up the cartridge by sighting the cantilever. But Lyra cantilevers should always be perpendicular to the face during play or the cartridge may not be performing at its best. The tether does not determine the angle. This is determined by the way the armature sits on the suspension. 

Dear edgwear, As support for Nandric ''thesis'' about his and Alesandro's character

I must mention that all Blue Kiseki's , which BTW I all own are 5,2 Ohms . Two of

''Kondo's'' SUT's are made for those. The 40 Ohm kinds are an enigma to me..

But as I also mentioned (?) my Kiseki Agaat has ''deviantt cantilever''. My on

induction based argument ( from  one to ALL)  is this  same Agaat.. Despite

crooked cantilever when it really counts the beauty behave as a real LADY.

and folllows  the grooves in straight ''position''. Otherwise ''she'' could not

be described as a BEAUTY . 

Dear mjiostyn, I hate  mathematics my whole life and ''it'' icludes 

geomatry. So I have no idea what you are tolking about. 

Dear edgewear, From wrong assertio or premise one can not get 

triue conclusions. Your premise  is that whole  series  Bleu is 40 Ohms 

while all are 5,2 ohms . For those Kondo san designed 2 SUT's ,

One of them is made from SILVER .Probable from 100 year old

ITALIAN SILVER. This may be the reason for Alessandro's

admiration. BTW for  this one one should be looking . Than those

40 Ohm in between and your Lazuli as well my Black heart are again

5,2  Ohm . The nr 3 SUT is made for both 5.2 as well 40 Ohm but

one need to switch  between them with ALL intermediary wire,  Not

what one would call ''pure ' or conssequent  solution . . 


@nandric The askew Cantilever is present as a result of a change to parts that are designed to function in a particular way and are assembled to perform as a critical interface.

The askew cantilevers Styli, when in the Groove may leave the impression the askew position has corrected.

The likelihood is that the interfacing and critical function for the assembly of the parts as a optimised interface is now long passed and the present condition is best described as defunct. 

Dear nandric, I was indeed wrong about the Blue and Purpleheart, which were also low impedance designs. But in the case of the 'beauty' (Agate) my memory seems to be correct as several sources on the net confirm this was a 42 ohm impedance system. For the original Kiseki's there were two different motors, so it could still be the case that both Dynavector AND Kondo were involved in their design. At least it would explain the choice of SUT's for both low and high impedance systems.

Dear pindac, I think that you have no understanding of damper function

in connection with coil former. The coil is pressed against damper

with tension wire. So tension wire ''center'' the cantilever. Those two

srews on the generator are connected with tension wire, By pressing

one or the  other side the cantolever position can be changed. Aka

''corrected''. Otherwise their function would be incomprehensible,

Today my son and I checked the Agaat with ''deviant cantlever''

iby playing records. The stylus is straith in the grooves, Ergo the 

grooves center the cantllever. The coill / damper combo follow

the stylus in the groove. Those are very ''small'' presures . Try

to move the stylus /cantilever with very smal pressure to see

how ''elastic'' they are . In most cases 2 g VTF is used . This 

actully cqn;t be called ''weight''. 

Dear edgewear, Hume's ''proudness  of ownership'' make no sense if

one  has no idea what  all he owns. I think that he was very poor man.

Those can certainly remember what  they own. The ''abundance'' of 

 of my carts collection  is illustration. I forget to mention Shinon Red

boron.  If you look at this cart you can se ''the same parts''' as by Kiseki.

This was curiously the argument  for Alessandro to state that

Dynavector produced Kiseki's. To me this means that one could 

buy parts by Dynavector as by Benz. But ''parts'' of Kondo-san 

cart would be obvious as parts of Kiseki. This than would not 

need expanation for  the misterious Mr. Fokadu. 

Well, I never owned Blue nor Purpleheart, so apparently I didn't know what I didn't own. How does that qualify me? Probably as an ignorant poor man.....🤣

Dear edgewear, I am very sorry to see your reaction. I very much enjoy discussion

with you. Now regarding dover I am as surprised as you are. I can't imgaine any

reason for him not to like me. Except for my reference to New  Zealand as Dutch

Zeeland, But he is an American  so he should not feel insulted by my  jokes

about New Sealand. BTW it is Zeeland . I know this Province in Holland .. 

As an  scientist he probably want to first check my finding with his own

experiment. If those don't produce the same result he maybe so polite not to

contradict my ''theory'' in order not to embarrass his forum friend,



@nandric , then it is impossible for you to set up a turntable correctly or understand how a cartridge functions. I'll give you the short answer. The groove moves the cantilever above the resonance frequency of the suspension. It is not responsible for the position of the cantilever in space. 

@nandric Sorry you have not been able to draw the attention of your select choice for contributors to your thread, I get the jist, that if the Maestro's are not commenting, other participation from non-reputed folk can hurt ones ambitions.

I sense your discontent with having been overlooked and take it on the chin fair and square, that as a non-reputed contributor, I have provoked a Big Ego and been dealt a blow as it it displays a retaliative bite.      

To be informed that I have no understanding that a Tie Wire has a function to position the cantilever and coil in a precision positioning to align with a magnet, is a silly statement to make. The compression applied to the Damper Material and alignment of the coil, is to be achieved by a specific tensioning of the wire and compression of the Damper Material.

As I do not build or overhaul any type of Cart's, I am limited in knowledge in these areas, but have a reasonable 'laymans' handle on the parts seen belonging to a typical assembly and the fundamentals of the intended function.

As a 'Layman' offering a description as the one stated earlier in this thread, the Tie Wire is sharing a few roles of which one is to perform as a restraint. When the wire is set to a precision tensioning, the wire will be a constraint to parts that are able to move, and enforced to function within a operational envelope.   

Setting aside your reciting of Olden Japanese designs and designers, and the construction of your inquiries and responses, I don't think our understanding of a MC Cart's operation is too far apart.

Mijostyn,I have no idea where you live. Alaska? But in Holland  for ''those prices''

the TT, the tonearm as well the cart are installed by the dealer. Do you missed

all those arguments of our beloved Dover? How many  (whole) STEREO''S  he 

installed for his customers. Their rewards caused by gratude was such that

he was able to move to(Dutch ) New Sealand and enjoy ''rich live'' at distance

from the poluted USA of America, with better wine than those made in

California not to mention HOLY WATER my real reason to visit him there.

I certainly need ''some'' at  my age. As ONE can conclude from my thought s

about Hume I am not poor.  So can buy my own wine  there and be independant

from dover's hospitality consisting of  an half glas of wine. 


Dear pindac, It is the other way round. It is called student paradox. If an

student does not understand whatever his professor has stated he will

no blame professor but himself. The professor is an genius and I am

not sufficient smart to understand him. Examples in abundace. Each

and every German know who Kant and Hegel are but hardly any have

heard about Frege the father of modern logic. I eeded to learn English

because tthe most information about Frege was in English

Take Wittgenstein as example. I have no idea what he counts as

phylosphy but in his ''phylosopical invetigation'' he wrote 10000

phylosphical REMARKS while an normal person can remember, say,

about 10. Who would expect support for such ''modest opinion'' about

human mind? 

Well I got it from Fermi ''from'' particle physics by particle physicist.

He stated;''If i was smarter I coud rememeber more of those particles''.

When I  read your post I feel like ''those students''.

@nandric Good Luck with receiving the support from the individuals who you called for in the OP.

Maybe if I read it more intently, I would not have focused on the "deviant" cantilever section, but also realised your first sentence is a notification that your desired to have a censorship on the replies. 

One lives and learns, always read the small print.

There is a paradox to consider, that could also be referred to has having a whiff to the notion. If one is looking for the renowned to be induced to offer a commentary, if the content offered is fitting and suitable, it may be such, that the same content is used in a private presentation to underpin ones own agendas.  

pindac, this tread is not about you nor me. So nether ego is involved. The

topic  is about ''function together of mentioned ''parts'' + LP groove.

The grammar force us to put everything in ''subject-predicate'' sentence

form but grammar has problems with ''relational'' phenomena's. Now

I am not talking about defective cantilevers nor dampers nor tension

wire. But about wat I named ''deviations''. One can see deviation of the

cantilever from ''straight'' position. If one own an +5K cart this may be

called ''shocking'' experiece  The poorer kind among us also by +200$.

But if we know that ''small deviation from straigth'' is not ''what it looks

like'' we can sleep well. The first to blame is not cantilever but damper.

We all know (?) that as ''function of time'' they can ''harden'' or 'dry

out'' or become ''weak'' or ''to soft''. We deed not yet mention ''low

riders''. But  we do remember  those phantastic Technics 205 (?)

kinds which become wortless  because of the ''soft damber. No way

to fix those. Not only ''monetary'' loss but also ''sentimental'' kind.of


So we have , speaking in language of formula's, 4 variables. The only

''one'' that I am not sure about are those 2 srews on the generator.

That is why I asked for DOVER'S help. But the (Dutch) New Sealand

PRIMA DONNA  feels probably ''insulted' one way or the other and

refuse to cooperate. I changed my mind about him and will not visit

him in his new country. Besides I can buy my own wine from Italy or

France. Compared to HIS  who would care  about New ZEELAND kind?

About ''egos'' or members. There ara those who think that their

English is a kind of priviledge in intellectual sense. I got remarks 

as  : ''your  English is second languge.'' . My answer was 

''my English is my 5th language''. I got no answer from this

''tickheaded person''. They don't grasp that their own forum

is international. I myself  was  seen as the member of the

''German group'' (with my beloved ''der Tonearm'' and Syntax).

If someone is to blame for my English thsn our Lew.

I decaalred him as my English  teacher. so those who intend

to blame MY English should address their post to Lew. 


When a Cart' is purchased for whatever the retail or purchase value, it is fundamentally a sacrificial part, 'expected' to deteriorate in performance.

How one chooses to continue with the usage of the Cart' when signs of deterioration shows is their choice. If they convince themselves that placing the Styli in the Groove is a solution to be used as a temporary correction, then this is their choice, and any unwanted knock on effects of this practice will commence being realised. 

The Cart' in use, will typically be subjected to a depreciation in value, as a result of the idea it has been used, even if the reported usage is claimed to be very low in hours, the unknowing and fragility of the device is the controlling factor, with this in mind, it is an individuals choice, for how much they want to pay for the same levels of fragility that are present across the entirety of the price range.

It is each to their own, when it comes to how much they would like to have attached, as a cost to be incurred to replay a Album, using the 1000 Hours as a guidance, a replay of a album can have an approx' cost of $1.50 - $13. There are very enjoyable experiences on offer from all Cart's, reports from users are sharing this on a regular basis.  

If the Cantilever is seen to be askew and has changed in appearance to an earlier observed alignment, especially one that was not noticeable with an askew being present. The chances are that a change has occurred to other under the hood parts, and this change to condition has manifested as a change to the cantilevers position.

An Aluminium Cantilever might endure a force and show as being curved or bent, but I am not sure if a mineral cantilever has ever been discovered with a curve formed on it.


Dear pindac, the expression ''it depends'' is short and easy to remembar and

very  smart   as reminder not to use quantifier  ALL when starting from our

own opinion. I owned  all Ikeda's FR 7 kinds. Those are from the 80is. 

Each of them was perfect in technical sense but I decided to keep F7,ez.

I also got after waiting for for 2 years his REX, the cantileveless kind.

Both are my most precious ''darlings''. No idea how he deed ''it'' but I have

never heard complaints about his dampers. In contradistinction the recent

purchased ZYX had defective damper. I ever started an thread about

IRREPARBLE carts. To my big surprise nobody was interested. My

reason was Sony XL 88D (D for diamond ). I am not sure if back than

acrilic existed so i will name it ''plastic body''. Gloed together and provided

with damping material inside to dampen resonaces. But there was no

way to get IN for any repair. So my friend Axel Shurholz, who described

this ''stuff'' as glue was not able to fix this ''wonder''. Our architect 

from Australia calld  AUSSIE declared this cart as the best he

ever owned. Mori-san made two innovations for this XL sereis.

8 form coils and internal damping. In the 80is one could buy

an Volkswagen for its price. So whatever the function of time 

may be ''deterioration'' is not  always the case. BTW also

all my Kiseki's from the 80 are much better then the ''brand 

new'' kind. The later are ''collectivly'' offered for sale while

my Agaat and Black heart are nowhere to find. 



Adopting me as your English professor is a situation up with which I will not put. Also, regarding NZ sourced wines, my wife has a predilection for their Sauvignon Blanc above most others. I know nothing about dampers, cantilevers, and whatnot, but the thread is amusing nevertheless, thanks to your wit.

Dear Lew, I don't remember exact what Caesar said to Briuus but by

approximation : ''ET TU, BRUTE!''. Tha is how I feel with your

''support'' for your student. Mind you you very well know who

my ''best proffesor of my life'' was despit the fact that I never have

seen him but leaned from  him by his books and articles, G.Frege

the GREAT. In similar way I try to learn from you English. I have

never forget your writer inclination and talent. To put this otherwise

I enjoyed all you post despite the fact tha deed not undersand aything you

had to say. Copicat is at present ''the method''  of lerning. Look

at all those mobile phones. There is a new definition of poverty. 

Not lack of bread but lack of I-phone is considerd as such.

Anyway I expect from you at least support against this ''fake''

New Zeelander . Whatever their wiine it has nothing to do with



I believe that getting the stylus angle to the groove correct is paramount to good sound, but inconsistencies in manufacturing stylus to cantilever and cantilever to body(?) can cause subpar alignment.  So I'm going to use WAM Engineering to calculate via microscope the optimal angle to set my cartridges in order to get the stylus to align accurately with the groove.  This obviously doesn't apply to spherical styluses.