I found it helpful to attend a few different audio shows to see and hear the low/medium/high level gear. What can be most promising are the rooms with less expensive gear that sounds great. Then get to know the Co owners, designers, and talk with them about their designs and product parts qualities next. It’s more fun to be a value-shopper and can be rewarding.
It’s too easy to just go out and blow a ton of money on flashy gear and hope that you are settled with it later. Takes work to figure out what is right for you and going somewhere to listen to gear set up by others and talking with them about it can be quite rewarding figuring this out for yourself even more. It’s a journey for all of us.
This can also help to quickly figure out what you don’t like, that’s for sure, low or high cost. I’ve heard some high $ gear that just sounded quite agitating, fatiguing, at shows, with horrible matching and paring of gear too, lol. Best of Luck.
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Tough topic to give a good response to. There are so many variables involved, and so much subjectivism that how good something sounds, and how well it works together are major elements. The influence of the room and setup are huge factors. Add the fact that we hear differently, and tastes vary and what’s considered good is rarely universal. An audio system is also a chain, where the weakest link is often what we hear from a system, which can hide the potential of some of the other components. Which leads us to the art of synergy and getting top shelf gear to play well together. The music selection and listening habits all play a factor. There’s just so many unknowns, and most of us only have meaningful exposure to a small fraction of what’s out there. Hearing gear at a CES almost doesn’t count, because the listening time is limited, and the environment is often not conducive to good sound and proper evaluation.
Add to the equation that price and performance don’t necessarily have a direct correlation, and there are definitely diminishing returns per dollar spent at some level. Some companies are more adept at marketing to a niche than they are at actually building better gear, and advancing the technology of audio. When I used to go to CES, immediately at the end of the each day of the shows, the business minded people would go out and entertain dealers, reviewers, and distributors after hours. But there was always a small segment of die hard audio guys who were in it for the pure love of audio, and they stay behind after hours at the show hotel, and would literally play with whatever gear they could get the hands on,often for hours until security kicked them out, then they’d get a late dinner wherever they could find a place that was open. To me, that was an indicator of the level of commitment to better audio....not necessarily with 100% accuracy, but I found it an interesting observation. It'd be fair to say that some of them were poor businessmen, but brilliant audio guys.
As for reviews - Payola is alive and well in audio (as it is with many things). It’s not uncommon for reviewers to get some benefit for recommending certain products, whether through direct payment, acquisition of gear or other perks, side hustles, increased readership, etc. I learned years ago to take reviews lightly, and/or with some skepticism. At best it’s an opinion. At worst it’s a form of advertising and/or business decision.
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It depends on you. Are you thrilled by the incremental difference? I am. It is what has been so rewarding about this pursuit. That additional realism and the fit with my aesthetic... which is now how well duplicates real natural music. Both aspects make me extremely happy. So, that appreciation brought me to identify Wilson, Magico, B&W, and Sonus Faber... but to purchase and enjoy Sonus Faber... because of its excellence and its fit with my aesthetic.
If I was a "good enough" kind of person... well it would be a complete waste of money. It is all about what you get out of it and that is a personality trait. This is typical of people across the spectrum. I hike, climb, and bike ride. I have a closet of Arctrex jackets that are both in themselves the pinnacle of design excellence and with the selection I have I can go out into sever conditions and be perfectly comfortable, with the perfect garment. It increases the enjoyment to me of the experience. Ditto... cameras, computers... etc.
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There are times I find that being as poor as I am, that I am still terrified that my investment is not going to do any good. Then to find that it completely blew away my expectations. Hopefully the day that this doesn’t make a difference is a long way away for me.
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At the higher end, parameters like resolution, clarity, soundfield nuances, bass impact, extension, etc can start to equalize, which are the same parameters that are immediately noticeable to a listener. Such equalization happens way more quickly with amplifiers, dacs, cables, etc. Subtle nuances don’t matter to most listeners, especially older ones with some hearing degradation.
At that point, you are better off improving the room and expanding your music collection. Or add a subwoofer, which can cause a drastic change...Or better yet, expand into object based multichannel audio/atmos, etc.
I believe it was Dali (could be wrong) that did a study where no one could distinguish speakers too much in a well treated room. If you insist on hearing differences that are wallet justifiable, get drastically different types of speaker designs. For example, i was comparing a TAD (concentric driver) and a Pioneer XY-3B (higher end PA horn that can bring down the house!) back to back in the same room for a bit. I could enjoy them for what they were... different presentations...could say the same with a recent Tekton
If i had been comparing the TAD with some higher end concentric driver like a KEF blade, it could have been a "why bother" moment, if i didn’t have a room that is capable of putting everything under the magnifying glass.....There are so many similar 3 ways or 4 ways which may lead you to a "why bother" moment....magico,...schweikert...Rockport...etc, Meh....
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It can be very rewarding to play at the margins using your idea. I just did it with great results. For example, the speakers I selected are NOS B&W 802 D Diamonds. So they are both one step down from the top 801, but they are also 2nd generation vs. the current 4th generation. Practical result: $23K saved. Soundwise, they are approximately 4 db down in the upper range, bass is little changed. I, like many others actually prefer the Diamonds for home use. Compared to the 801s, they are identical from 375 Hz up, but they are leaner sounding. Most, including me, would prefer 801s given the choice. Another example: Amplifier. I chose the recently discontinued Marantz PM10, an amplifier that the dealer said outperformed any other that he sold on B&W 802s. He also sold Mark Levinson, McIntosh and so on. Practical result: At least $4k saved, the price of the PM10 before discontinuation. It sounds terrific to me and my standard of reference is the C-J 27A class A amp I use in my main system. There is no point in further examples. If you are smart about it, there is no question that it is possible to put together a wonderful system at significant savings using your idea. Most importantly, it is a lot of fun.
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Decreasing marginal returns are as true in audio as anywhere else - possibly truer, considering how much one can spend with audio gear.
Value... different, and totally personal assessment. To me, $50k in audio is "unthinkable", but I have happily spent that amount or more on other stuff I collect. Part of the reason why it's 'unthinkable' is because of those marginal returns. I listened - briefly, and probably not attentively enough - to a DAC in a shop (Chord Hugo TT2) against its 4x-as-expensive brother (Chord Dave + MScaler). Yes, there were differences, but not worth spending $12k for me. Ended up taking the Hugo TT2 home for a couple of days, and returning as it wasn't "so much better" than my 30 year old LFD.
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I'm quite happy with where my system is at, but like most of you, it's not a stable condition. I still look at gear every day, wondering if the $40k (used) speakers will be appreciably better than the $15k (used) that I spent. Same goes for the electronics. I'm tempted to go back 5-10 years to get premium used gear.
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You pose an excellent question, for which there is no right answer, everyone is different. I think as you go up the expense ladder, particularly with electronics, the qualitative differences are real, but narrow significantly. You may spend a good amount of money to get only a 5% gain but for some people that will be money well spent, others not so much. For some, the chase is the game and is unending.
This is also relative, not absolute. Someone who owns $50,000 speakers might think they are in such rarified air that all that can be achieved has been achieved. The fellow who owns $100,000 speakers would think a little differently.
in the final analysis, it’s not a competition, something we sometimes seem to forget. All of us have a different budget and a different amount of money that we are able and willing to spend on this hobby. The goal should be to deploy those resources in a way that brings you the most enjoyment. Some will reach a place where they are perfectly satisfied and get off the train. For others, the journey doesn’t end and they always look for the next upgrade. Neither is wrong
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There’s some truth in it. I think there is a level of hifi gear that annoys you with some kind of sound or coloration, or for example bad bass or brash highs. “Do no harm” applies first. After that, to include finding the kind of sound you like and having a good room set up, the degrees of separation can be marginal.
Unfortunately you can find yourself in the first phase (something’s not right) even after spending a lot of money. Could be synergy between components, room, etc. Having a good dealer helps.
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@kerrybh +1
I’ve been contemplating how to give a thoughtful answer to the thoughtful question posed by the OP. I don’t think I’ll do better than the above but will add my $.02.
I’ve enjoyed every stage of my systems development over the years. As I made one improvement, I found myself desiring to make other improvements - because it was both fun to see (hear) “what if” and musically rewarding. It was also sending me down the proverbial rabbit hole. Upgrade here led to upgrade there.
I have several times concluded I was done, just wanting to sit back and enjoy the music, only to eventually explore another what if.
Where am I at now? Well, I stumbled into the category you are inquiring about with my DAC/preamp and cables. The speakers and amp are certainly nice, but fall well short of TOTL. Each piece was chosen based on a combination of performance, what my room would accommodate, aesthetics (I don’t want to look at gear), budget, and what was available from dealers I know, like and wanted to support.
Based on that criteria, in my room (a notable limitation), I find my speakers give me 95% of what I’ve heard from the best (other than MBL 101 MK IIs - but those didn’t meet the aesthetic requirement). They’re very satisfying. Will I ever upgrade? I can’t say.
On the DAC/preamp and cables? They’ve given me more of everything, allowing the speakers and amp to give their best. And yes, to me it was worth it though I can easily imagine others thinking me quite the fool. But they really were notably better than the gear they replaced (which was already good) and what I heard elsewhere. Better than other TOTL gear? Doubtful, but I had sound reasons for the choices I made.
Is it all worth it? I would never say one way or the other for anyone else other than to say never risk your financial independence over audio gear. Assuming that’s not a concern, I would suggest you step gently and try a piece here and there to see if it brings you the satisfaction you desire. It can be a fun journey, though be forewarned: I’m pretty sure no one actually gets to the final destination.
What’s next for me? Not sure. I still wonder about my amp but substantively improving it would require a big spend - and I’m not sure I’d get that much more anyway. And, I am considering the Taiko extreme and Olympus servers - though that feels like it may add complexity I don’t need. And they are changing things quickly in that space.
So today, I’ll enjoy the music. Hopefully I’ll do the same tomorrow. And then I’ll go AXPONA and I may stumble again.
Best,
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In my experience yes. But I don't always need to be listening to a high end system to enjoy music.
Let me explain - I have experienced significant upgrades in my system over the years. I notice them and enjoy them. And I've listened to music at audio shows. in my local audio dealer and at folks houses. I've had times where I listening to music was awesome and it was powered by a modest system. I've had times where listening was 'ok, time to go' and the system was very high-end and put together.
I don't expect to upgrade again and I do enjoy listening to different music and different music.
Enjoy your journey!
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