I Sold my CD Player!!! Streaming sounds so incredible!!!

I had to ditch my CD player long ago.  I got a CD transport that, when combined with my DAC,  is as good as my streaming system, but I hardly ever use it.  only if someone brings something over they want to hear or if there is something available on CD but not Qobuz.  Not often but there are some artists who don't support streaming.

Good for you. As for me, my vinyl rig, CD rig and streaming rig are all equally satisfying. It sounds like you may have invested way more in the streaming setup than you did in your vinyl and CD one. That being said, nothing beats streaming for discovering new music.

When I bought my Innuos Zen Mk3, I bought a new tablet. I like the Sense app and the new tablet is a lot better than my old tablet.  I mostly stream now.  I will hang on to my Denon DCD-1700NE sacd player, but it doesn't get used much.  Cds that aren't available to stream get ripped with the Innuos.  I rarely play vinyl. It sounds great, but not too convenient. 

@baylinor On the contraire. I invested just as much or more in my CD and vinyl rigs as I did with my streaming rig. However, I’m extremely pleased with the way my rig streams music. I was most pleased to get rid of my vinyl rig over 20 years ago.  And now, I’m most pleased to have replaced my CD’s with streaming. Happy listening.

I had an Ayre C5xe-mp for years and finally traded it in on a Chord Hugo TT 2. I had spent some time looking for a DAC with AES-EBU digital input, and couldn’t find one I could afford or suited me. So I now use my Oppo BVD105d as a transport thru the Chord. Although the Ayre was better on SACD, I don’t own enough SACDs to warrant keeping it just for that. And with streaming being my main method of music, I just don’t listen to CDs as much as I used to. Someday I want to set a storage drive with my CD collection and at that time I will box up the CDs and store them. Also I find that I don’t listen to vinyl as much as I used to either, a couple years ago I broke my arm and playing records became a challenge and I just got into streaming and have become lazy and find sitting in my chair with my iPad is better than hopping up every 15 minutes to cue a record. Even though I still think vinyl still sounds more natural. 

I am happy for you OP. I would never get rid of my CD player as I have collections of various performances that I like. I also like the convenience of putting on a CD. Each to his own.

Never need to play those cd's again, and if you want to play them rip them to hard drive, play over streaming setup. I have well over 3K cd's that I ripped to NAS. And I'd bet on those rips played over your local network will sound better than played via your cd transport. I had Mark Levinson ML37 transport, much proprietary engineering with Phillips Pro drive. so no slouch and I preferred rips long ago with a previous far inferior streaming setup to what I have now. Also, cd rips are sometimes superior sound quality vs streams of same music, another plus.

@kennymacc 

"Au contraire" would have been the proper way to use that French word. Au contraire mon frère would have been classier. Très heureux que vous avez trouvé votre système favori. Native from Genève, Suisse. Living in the USA since 1975. Very happy for you.

I find that engaging in the ‘Which is better? Streaming vs CDP? ‘has gotten rather pointless. Both technologies are mature. They are both capable of excellent sound. It comes down to features. Does the convenience of streaming outweigh some of its disadvantages? Do you still have an attachment to Physical Media.

I primarily listen to Classical Music. I thought that I would burn my collection of thousands of CDs to my server and free up tons of space. I was happy with the SQ of my ripped discs and enjoyed the convenience of auditioning new releases from streaming services.

It turns out that there isn’t a single software program that I’ve encountered-and I’ve tried many, including Roon-that can organize Classical Music. I can find CDs faster on my shelf than in the media libraries. Also many of these recordings were not big sellers-perhaps 20,000 units- and some are recordings dating back decades. The availability of these recordings in the services such as Qobuz is spotty as their availability ebbs and recedes.

So for me CDs will be part of the equation until I croak and unfortunately my heirs will be stuck disposing of them. Sometimes I just feel like parking in the recliner and using my server to access the ones that it can find

And now the artists get paid a fraction of what they did!!! Well done!!!

It’s always nice to run old cds on my dvd player out through a good co-ax cable into the dac on my streamer. The cds will sound better through a good quality dac. But the OP  is right, 16 bit compared to 24 bit, there is no going backwards 

In regard to artist's remuneration. The most popular artists do just fine between streaming royalties and concert dates. The obscure and/or unknown artists likely do better with streaming vs. hard copy. For one they get far more exposure via streaming vs. cd/vinyl, Vast majority of these artists won't get promoted by a record company and it requires resources to produce hard copy. Nope, these types of artists have been advantaged by streaming, I have literally thousands of releases on my fav and play lists  from artists I'd not even be aware of if only hard copy available. I have well over 3k cd's and that much or more vinyl, and the vast, vast majority of it is well known artists from the past. When I was purchasing hard copy there were enough past artists and contemporary artists I was familiar with to empty my pockets of money set aside for music purchases.

Now, I might agree that mid level artists may suffer streaming vs. hard copy. These artists may have profited more from hard copy vs. streaming, assuming streaming not available. Still, does the greater exposure that comes from streaming add up to more listens which means greater remuneration, and perhaps a greater chance of prolonging a career.

I'm a boomer, totally believe this is the golden age of music, I can now afford complete output of my favorite artists, and I get much more exposure to new music and artists!

Think about the average size of vinyl and cd collections, I 'd say my 3k plus cd, 3k plus vinyl is up there. And so, I have this relatively large collection, think about how few artists have benefited from my purchases, and how little money I've spent relative to the entire output of recordings ever made! Now , tell me who was getting rich from back in the bad old days when record companies ruled who got signed and promoted.

   @secretguy working in a soupkitchen last Thanksgiving I saw Roger Daultry, Taylor Swift and Billy Joel in line.  I do feel sorry for the poor artists.

@laoman - If you like the 'convenience' (!!) of finding/cleaning/putting on a CD, then you'd be gobsmaked at the real convenience of choosing music from your chair, and playing it within seconds of deciding what you want to listen to.

@sns - 100% agree. I spent over a year ripping my c2k CD's to my PC (using EAC, and FLAC). I sold my 'high end' CD transport and DAC and spent just 30% of the funds to get the steamer, and it killed the CD. Sold the TT too, and bought a BMW (used) with the proceeds. The streamer sounds better than either, at a fraction of the cost. It's a win-win as far as I can see, and you don't have to spend stupid money on expensive Vinyl, which wears out, then play it, wearing out your VERY expensive stylus, very quickly.

@mahler123 - "Does the convenience of streaming outweigh some of its disadvantages?" So what are its disadvantages? I don't listen to Classical music, so don't know about streaming services limitations (I don't use any of them btw, but play music from my own ripped CDs or downloaded music), but if that's your only gripe, then that is so easily overcome by ripping those few you can't stream from xxxx, to your own PC/NAS, and if you actually don't own them, download them and do the same.

@secretguy - So, are you suggesting we all sell our streaming setups, or never download or stream music?? If you're going to post a meaningless statement, you should add what alternatives you propose. You must be THE only person on this forum who's never downloaded music or a film without buying it first = doubtful.

"nothing beats streaming for discovering new music."
My experience is different. Most of my new discoveries come via analog stereo tuner on public radio local programming. One host specializes in progressive rock, others in folk, jazz, baroque, reggae. Years ago, Spotify did a scary good job of profiling my tastes, yet today very few of their suggestions have proved to be keepers. The Qobuz algorithm doesn't seem to have me figured out at all, and I've yet to find any streaming radio stations through Qobuz that keep me interested. My #3 system is hooked to satellite TV via a good DAC, providing access to DirecTV stations such as "Adult Contemporary" that aren't bad. #4 system is on desktop, and I'm told that YouTube knows users better than they know themselves, but haven't gone there yet to verify this. 

@mahler123 After over 40 years in high end audio, it really doesn’t matter to me anymore which audio format sounds best, because they all sound great to me. I was only expressing my sheer delight in my own dedicated streaming audio system, which prompted me to sell off my old CD player. I always say-----high end audio are "Big Boy Toys" and you get to pick your favorite toys to play with, whether it be CD, streaming, vinyl, reel to reel, etc. Whatever pleasures "YOU"  is all that matters. Happy listening.

Congratulations. I to listen to streaming almost exclusively, and all media (given the same master) sound the same, but I have retained my vinyl and CP players.

SNAP CRACKLE POP,no thanks..Give me an inky black background,NO constant cleaning,no degradation of the media with EVERY use,no massive storage area & on & on & on...

Cool!  What model was your old CD-player?

Getting there. Never had a CD Player but had a transport. Jumped to the Innuos Zenith MKIII product ripped all my CD’s. Love streaming Qobuz, I do still like listening to my small vinyl collection.

@logistics  My old CD player was an Esoteric SA-60 SACD Media Player.  Happy listening. 

Funny you just wrote this.  Just this AM I removed my CD transport and parked it in the basement.  I find CDs generally poorly recorded, clipped and way over compressed.  I have over a thousand of them and just don’t like the sound.  I still love vinyl but truth be told my Quboz/ Roon source sounds almost as good as my vinyl and a LOT better than the “tin can CD”

of course that’s just one mans opinion. 

”

Congrats!!! Really good investments you have made except for the Ethernet Cables that's a waste of money (if you're not affiliated with the cable reseller)

I just bought a transport… go figure.  I embrace all formats but I have a lot of CDs and sometimes I’ll search on Tidal or Qobuz and an artist or album isn’t available  

I stream a lot , my Aurender N200 sounds great but I think this new transport rivals or betters it with 44.1k content    I tend to buy CDs and records where I like both sides so those I do like to own the physical media.   As awesome as streaming is I like to have a music library 

Streaming radio station or Fm isn't best for discovering new artists. Between Qobuz and Tidal which I stream over Roon, nearly unlimited music, and Roon radio will play entire catalog of my ripped library, Tidal and Qobuz at random, also suggestions of similar artists when playing individual tracks or albums.

I don't get into sound quality arguments, all can be top notch, and I continue to have very nice vinyl setup, nothing beats having the art and packaging in a larger format. CD's blah for this, don't miss it.

The only thing I don't get is those who continue to exclusively use cd and/or  vinyl with small collections of both. Even with 6k to choose between both formats and virtually all genres I ended up in repeat mode, familiar with everything, no surprises. Finding new great music keeps it fresh!

 I find CDs generally poorly recorded, clipped and way over compressed.  I have over a thousand of them and just don’t like the sound. 

If I had the same experience, I wouldn't bother with CDs either. It's not my experience, though. 

Related story:

The other day I visited my local hifi shop as I often do when passing by.

I was able to connect my iPhone to their network and stream any of “my” music on any of the systems they had set up, At least several dozen different choices there including their reference system running top of the line Mac amplification and Sonus Faber Cremonese ( I think) speakers.

I used Roon Arc to connect remotely to my Roon server at home and streamed to the vendor’s systems using airplay.

Welcome to hifi in the 21st century, year 2024.

With that experience fresh in my mind, I was able to come home and tweak my sound just a tad for the better streaming the same tracks as  at the store  and  using Roon and it’s built-in DSP and a few minor placement adjustments.

My recommendation is to do anything possible to keep up with what modern technology has to offer and avoid merely living in the past and only doing the same things done 40 years ago on the quest for good sound.

Happy listening!

@classicrockfan High end audio is all about musical listening pleasure, so there’s no such thing as a "bad investment." This is fun stuff and should not to be taken so seriously. If whatever audio item you purchase, cables, amps, speakers, etc., regardless of cost, brings you that much closer to audio nirvana, then the purchase was worth every penny, and more. Happy listening

I think a lot has to do with the source of the recording.  When it was mastered , who mastered it…. Etc.   There are many copies of the “same” album when you search. Some are phenomenal, some are pretty bad.  
 

I have a lot of CDs that were AAD recordings and they don’t have compression like many recording today.  Some sound really good .  
 

I love streaming , don’t get me wrong , it totally changed the was I consume new music.  But I like the ritual of CDs and records.   

Just imagine if you go up to the next level say $12k+ on digital 

This is roughly the sweet spot  in price thsts a Big jump up in sound quality one thing not mentioned much ,your network switch using a upgraded power cord 

and from your Router- modem  get rid of all wall warts from router or anywhere else 

they are $5  and just add to the noise floor ,on your router it tells the voltage ,modt are about 12v around 4 amps . I use the Linear Tube Audio LPS it can be bought for $50 off on Audiogon  for $700.

the best under $1200 LPS I have found and has a very well made DC cable to the router ,I use this with a decent Pangea sig mk2 Thst  is plenty good for That

this makes a nice increase in fidelity ,for digital streaming is not grounded and noise travels house to house a LPS at your router eliminate the noise from the start

pin the audio chain. 

Hello all.  Thanks for all your insightful responses to my post.  I just want to emphasize the fact that, I didn't sell my CD player because I didn't think it sounded excellent, I sold it because I found something else I liked better.  Happy listening.

Streaming is awesome and so are CDs for me. There is...one thing that can make it better...and in some cases much better. You do need a CD player and a low-cost disc.  Ayre, which is a respected high-end company, came out with a System Enhancement Disc some years ago dubbed 'Irrational but Efficacious'. Ayre doesn't know exactly why it improves system performance but was so impressed with the results that they made the disc available to the public. Since then, several other companies have come out with similar products. 

I rarely listen to CDs these days on my main system, but the idea came to mind to use Track # 7 to see if it made a difference even though the CD player had been turned off for several weeks/months. After playing the Ayre disc, everything in the system improved...and not just a little bit.

Conclusion...Don't ditch the CD player, if for no other reason than to tune up the system occasionally so I can better enjoy the very excellent streaming results I am getting through Qobuz.

My streaming sounds great, but there's no way to play my large collection of CDs without a CD player (also no way to play my vinyl without an analog rig...it would just sit there)...my current system for that is a Schiit URD into a Schiit Bifrost 2/64 (utilizing their "Nexus" USB connection...well done Mr. Moffat) and that combo yields astonishingly superb results. All these options sound too good to exclude anything...I'm amazed that analog works at all...dragging a tiny MC stylus through some plastic...amazing.

Quoting Mahler 123:  itturns out that there isn’t a single software program that I’ve encountered-and I’ve tried many, including Roon-that can organize Classical Music. I can find CDs faster on my shelf than in the media libraries. Also many of these recordings were not big sellers-perhaps 20,000 units- and some are recordings dating back decades. The availability of these recordings in the services such as Qobuz is spotty as their availability ebbs and recedes.
 

Replying to Mahler123>

Like you I listen to Classical Music, both opera and classical music.  As an audiophile with a very well outfitted Roon system and duplicated on the Naim Uniti Core that I started on by ripping my CD collection and editing the metadata and with a CD Collection of over 4000 albums, I have a little experience. I started with LPs in the 50s, graduated to tape cassettes, then CDs, I go back a few years.  I struggle to believe that you can file and find your CDs any better than you can organize your metadata in Roon and other systems that curate metadata.  Classical music has inherent problems that make it virtually imposslble to have a perfect file system.

But my real point isn’t to argue about that but to say that streaming my CDs is the best thing I’ve done.  I made the mistake of refurbishing my Bang & Olufsen turntable so I could return to using my vinyl collection.  It’s in complete rebuilt condition, sounds as good as a Beogram 4004 can sound and I’ve played it four times in 12 months.  The reason is so obvious, it’s that streaming is so ridiculously convenient, I can’t be bothered to struggle with handling the physical copy.  It takes awhile to locate a physical copy and set it up to play.  It takes less than a minute to start the same music selection streaming.  And my physical CDs no longer take up space in my house.  I even bought an expensive Ayre DX-5 DSD for my SACDs.  I’ve had it a year and play it almost never.  For the same reason.  And not only is streaming ridiculously convenient it sounds equal to or better than my expensive Triode CD player with optional tube.

i don’t need Tidal or Qobuz because my CD collection has most of what I want.  If I want something new, I buy the CD.  And because I only have to rip it once, I don’t need to buy new.  When I buy a CD, it costs almost nothing.  
 

I admit I haven’t made the logical next step, which is to donate or sell my CD collection.  For unknown reasons, I like to own the hard copy too, though I’ve never once turned to a ripped CD to listen to it again.

My vinyl collection is impossibly large.  It is always a lengthy ritual to find and prep a vinyl recording to play.  I just hate doing it.  So I don’t.  Luckily much of my vinyl has been professionally dubbed and if I have something that has t been dubbed,  I’ll buy the CD.  I ought to sell my Beogram 4004 but I probably won’t.

It turns out that there isn’t a single software program that I’ve encountered-and I’ve tried many, including Roon-that can organize Classical Music. I can find CDs faster on my shelf than in the media libraries.

There was some method to the madness on how physical CDs were organized on the shelves. Set up a categorized folder tree (on NAS) that mimics your preference for sorting/viewing/browsing. Browse by folder only, i e., navigate through the folder tree you set up to locate your music. If your software restricts you from doing the latter (a simple browse by folder), throw it in the garbage.

Roon..or Schloon can’t cater a whole lot to your personal tastes when a collection becomes too big...only you can organize folder trees to your personal taste.

I remember back in the 1980's when CDs became popular and the belief was that turntables would no longer be necessary. Today turntables and vinyl are more popular than ever.  When streaming became the new norm the belief was that CD players had become outdated, yet there are still millions in use.  When people have a lot of money invested in their physical music media, they are not going to discard it simply because a newer technology happens to come along.  While I do find streaming to be very convenient I still prefer listening to quality CDs through my vintage Naim CDi.  😊

@echolane 

  Last week I tried to find Sviatislav Richter RCA recording of Bach Well Tempered Clavier Books I and II on my streamer.  My software is mconnect and Cambridge Audio Stream Magic.  I know that I had ripped it to the NAS.

  I have something like 17 tabs for the composer in both programs.  He is listed as Bach, JS; JD Bach; Bach with his birth date; Bach, J.S with his death date; and multiple other ways. The 100 or so Bach albums that I’ve ripped to the NAS are all dispersed amongst the various tabs.  Different discs from multi disc set are in different tabs.  If I want to play the 3 discs from St Matthew Passion I need to find it in 3 different tabs.  Guess what?  After checking all of these tabs, the Richter recording isn’t in any of them!  Nor does searching by Artist-enter Sviatislav, Richter, or all the possible combinations-bring it up.

  I go to my CD shelves, which I organized over the 30+ years of buying CDs.  I look under JS Bach, who is in the B section, find the CD set, pull it out and play it, and in 10 seconds I have music.  I had just fruitlessly waisted 15 minutes in the thickets of streamer software.

  The same problem exists with Mahler, Beethoven, Mozart, etc.  As for multi composer discs, don’t ask.

  So I again burn the Richter discs.  The Melco N 100 will usually give me a message if the disc already exists in the database; none occurs.  Again the discs don’t show up in any of the tabs except for “recently added”.

  So make a playlist, you say.  So I did.  I created a playlist and named it “Sviatislav Richter”.  I had to add each track individually.48 Preludes and Fugues.  96 tracks.  A couple of times my wife interrupted me, I lost concentration, made a few mistakes in the order.  then had to add/delete/reorder…. I could have gone to my shelf about 10,000 times and pulled the CD off and replaced it in the time it took to search these tabs and make the playlist.

  Buy Roon and your troubles are solved, you say.  I did a one week trial a few years back and it maybe made things maybe 10% better.  I thought the SQ took about a 10% dip.  Decided against the lifetime $500 fee. YMMV.

  Regarding the commercial services, I have had several discs, usually Nonesuch recordings, go in and out of the catalog in a few months time. Joshua Rifkin Scott Joplin recordings originally were on 3 LPs and were eventually, briefly reissued on 3 CDs.  After enjoying them on Qobuz for a month or so they disappeared.  Emails to Qobuz went unanswered.  One of the albums reappeared after a month and then disappeared a few weeks later.  Same with Karl Ristenpart Bach recordings.  I eventually purchased all of these as second hand CDs, downloads, or LPs, depending upon availability.

  My physical media are fairly well organized, and I can find them easily.  Classical Music just doesn’t fit music file systems, which were all designed to other genres.  I’ve tried several others besides the ones mentioned above.

I haven’t even gone into the issues that I had with with Bluesound Node, which became hung up for weeks doing and update, or the Bryston BDP3, which relies upon a software program that is unusable for any genre.

  So my experience is atypical but for me streaming has been a frustrating, cumbersome experience.  Nothing beats the plug and play of a CD player, and SQ is equal.

  I just want to enjoy listening to music without having to learn how to become an IT Consultant in the process 

.I’m amazed that analog works at all...dragging a tiny MC stylus through some plastic...amazing.

+1 @wolf_garcia It is amazing. I always equate it to riding roller coasters to make music. Plus it’s still a somewhat popular thing which is even more amazing.

Like you I listen to Classical Music, both opera and classical music. As an audiophile with a very well outfitted Roon system and duplicated on the Naim Uniti Core that I started on by ripping my CD collection and editing the metadata and with a CD Collection of over 4000 albums,

Hmmm, what the hell am I missing here?

When you all rip your 4000 cds or 10000 cds, do you throw the files willy nelly into a nas drive (hoping metadata will save you) OR do you organize a folder tree by root folder genre --’>> Artist name folder (alphabetical) ---->> Album names folder?? ....which is how cds or vinyl sits in the racks

If the Metadata tracker fails, why can’t you all simply browse by folder to get to your favorite song bird for the day? Seems like a common sense thought process/solution is getting buried by promise of a failed "Metadata" miracle....

It is amazing. I always equate it to riding roller coasters to make music. Plus it’s still a somewhat popular thing which is even more amazing.

What’s getting even more popular in ultra high end vinyl audiophilia is putting that vinyl through a Sugar Cube filter or whatever adc/dac chain to remove the pops and the crackles and the brrrss and the....sounds of an organic life (they say)  to make vinyl sound more hifi..

Mmmhmm

One of the downsides to streaming mentioned, and that is sudden disappearance of recordings from streaming services. And it will be the exact same artist and album from both Tidal and Qobuz. I presume disputes with artists and/or record labels here? The funny thing is sometimes they reappear, either dispute settled or are these server glitches? So, one might consider purchasing the cd of the deleted recording, sorry that cd may no longer be available for purchase. Shazam, magical disappearing act.

Point is, yes, recordings disappear from streaming services, but physical media disappears as well. I fully expect production and distribution of cd's to continue to decline, in recent years I've observed two sites I previously purchased cd's from ceasing business. I expect both vinyl and cd's will continue with very limited releases available.

@jimmyblues1959 "Vinyl and CD are more popular than ever????" Unfortunately, nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, just the opposite of what you stated is true. Yes, vinyl and CD may still be popular with old farts like us, for all the reasons you so explicitly stated. However, amongst the young, say, ages 18-40, vinyl and CD are virtually nonexistent. In today’s world, the vast majority of those who represent the future of high end audio, or, music listening in general, stream their music exclusively. Yes, I’m afraid that todays world of high end audio has become more like an exclusive club for more well-heeled senior citizens like us who grew up with and are still clinging onto the old technologies that we still hold so dear to our hearts. And that, in a nutshell is what today’s high end audio represents. High end audio seems to be becoming a dying breeds, perhaps because of it’s inability to embrace and promote the new digital technologies, instead of allowing itself to become dominated by the old and antiquated. Go take a visit to your local high end audio shop, or go out and attend one of the big audio shows, you’d think you were at an old folks convention for the middle age and beyond, Lol. Sad, considering how beautiful and vibrant the world of high end audio was in years past. If there is to be a long term future for high end audio, it must embrace the new digital world, or else it will eventually fade away along with all us old farts. Happy listening.

In regard to artist's remuneration. The most popular artists do just fine between streaming royalties and concert dates. The obscure and/or unknown artists likely do better with streaming vs. hard copy. For one they get far more exposure via streaming vs. cd/vinyl, Vast majority of these artists won't get promoted by a record company and it requires resources to produce hard copy. Nope, these types of artists have been advantaged by streaming,

Really? Sounds like rationalizing to me. 

More popular platforms, however, aren't as competitive. Spotify pays artists around $0.004 per stream, and Apple Music pays $0.007 per stream — meaning artists would have to receive 4,000 streams per hour on Spotify or 2,286 streams on Apple Music to make the $16 minimum wage in California.

Here's a way to deal with proper compensation for artists but some will complain about having to pay more for the service by raising each stream to a whole penny!  Don't forget that Sean Parker started it all with Napster as a way to steal royalties from musicians and is celebrated as a hero for doing so.

We've become so accustomed to this model that it's accepted as normal, which would explain a lot of things. Whenever I browse and come across something I like, I buy a CD, which the artists really appreciate. 

All the best,
Nonoise

In the real world, working musicians have to market their own CDs (or vinyl) at shows or on sites to justify the cost of those things, and nobody (or nearly nobody) makes much money selling physical product. The value of streaming is to advertise yourself and maybe entice somebody to come to a show. If you're actually good (many aren't) you better hit the road hard and long until you can sell out little room and get some actual bucks. Recording deals just ain't the way as they generally saddle you with huge expenses and often take your control away. That's simply how it is.

 "Vinyl and CD are more popular than ever????" Unfortunately, nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, just the opposite of what you stated is true. Yes, vinyl and CD may still be popular with old farts like us, for all the reasons you so explicitly stated. However, amongst the young, say, ages 18-40, vinyl and CD are virtually nonexistent. In today’s world, the vast majority of those who represent the future of high end audio, or, music listening in general, stream their music exclusively. Yes, I’m afraid that todays world of high end audio has become more like an exclusive club for more well-heeled senior citizens like us who grew up with and are still clinging onto the old technologies that we still hold so dear to our hearts. And that, in a nutshell is what today’s high end audio represents. High end audio seems to be becoming a dying breeds, perhaps because of it’s inability to embrace and promote the new digital technologies, instead of allowing itself to become dominated by the old and antiquated. Go take a visit to your local high end audio shop, or go out and attend one of the big audio shows, you’d think you were at an old folks convention for the middle age and beyond, Lol. Sad, considering how beautiful and vibrant the world of high end audio was in years past. If there is to be a long term future for high end audio, it must embrace the new digital world, or else it will eventually fade away along with all us old farts. Happy listening.

Music streaming = 84% of music industry revenue

Spotify subscriber count = 700+ Million

Apple music subscriber count = 200+ million

Bandcamp: 180+ million

Soundcloud: 140+ million

Youtube music = 100+ million

Amazon music: 82+ million

Sirius XM: 33+ million

Deezer: 10+ million

Pandora: 6+ million

Napster: 5 million

Tidal = 2 million

Qobuz = 200k

etc

Number of vinyl records sold in 2023: 49 million

Number of CDs sold in 2023: 38 million

Such is life, it appears.

@wolf_garcia +1 I can agree that many artists receive too little compensation. But lets imagine a world without streaming where record companies control the marketing and promotion of artists they chose to work with. So, you're a beginning artist, who's going to market, promote, press hard copy for you! Nope, you better have big bucks behind you if you're independent of the record companies.

Don't delude yourself there was some golden age for artists in this country. Just last night I was listening to Randy Burns, acid folk artist from NYC from back in the 60's, in the vein of Pearls Before Swine, both on the legendary indie label ESP. These guys never made a buck, were hardly heard, sad, sad, sad. And I can say this about tons of both old and contemporary artists I've only found because of streaming. Did all those bebop jazz and blues musicians benefit from the old ways, nope. And how about all the musicians who couldn't even get signed to any label, they die and/or leave music without anyone other than a few close friends getting to hear their music.

I mostly despise  hard copy business model these days, how about the thousandth release of some Led Zeppelin, Bob Dylan or any of a hundred old artists, albums selling for high dollars. Just how much money do you think average consumers have to spend on music, their entire monthly budget could be used up on a single album.  The hard copy way of doing business is obsolete, only a few artists benefit at all.

Streaming  and live performance/marketing will be the only business model going forward for vast majority of artists. It will be up to artists and consumers which way it goes in regard to remuneration.

Name me one artist, group, or orchestra that is satisfied with the present system and wouldn’t want to go back to the older one. Yes, that one had its problems but they pale in comparison. Musicians just adapted and now it’s the new normal.

Back when Napster first came out, all the online comments were: screw the artists, I don’t care, why buy it when I can get it for free, f*ck them all, etc. It became a thieves nation on a musical scale (pardon the pun).

A whole industry was built on that frame of mind which brings us to the present, with companies finding new ways to dig even deeper into our pockets. They even created an entire new value system to back it up to make one memory hole the past.

When I buy from someplace like Bandcamp, they offer downloads, vinyl and CDs at their respective prices. They even give you the option of paying more if you like and the shipping is on me. It’s one of the few refuges where artists can make a buck. I don’t mind that at all. Sometimes the artist will sell on Amazon and if so, I’ll buy it from there.

When Alexander saw the breadth of his music domain, he wept and then went streaming.

All the best,
Nonoise

Still listen to cds, reel to reel, vinyl and streaming…love each format…nothing about that will change…

I haven't played CDs in a long time, but I still buy CDs very often. 

I bought a Aurender N150 a couple years ago and it is excellent, but the reason I went with Aurender over Roon was the built in hard drive.

I have Qobuz and use it sometimes, but I mostly listen to my music library which is CDs ripped in WAV format onto the built in solid state hard drive. Streaming sounds pretty good and the Hi Res stuff is above the regular CD quality streams... BUT my ripped music library on the internal hard drive absolutely blows away anything on Qobuz... Often when I hear a new album or artist I discover on Qobuz I will buy the CD and add it to my collection..

Well, business models have never favored vast majority of artists, musicians. Until the day comes they can leverage their art it will never happen.

I'm sure most popular artists would prefer a system where they and their record company could monopolize their hard copy. Again, I return to the more obscure artists who'd never have the resources to press, market and distribute their music to the vast public.

I'd also posit streaming is a more democratic system in regard to bringing far more music to the public than would exist otherwise. Keeping in mind some artists underpaid, greater affordability of music means poorer folks have access to music they may not have with previous business models.

I well remember the bad old days, when I was young and poor, saving up for the few albums I could afford, the others I desired had to be satisfied listening to radio. Vast majority of stations were tightly programmed, very limited playlists, even the free form FM stations genre specific. Jazz and classical limited to far end of dial, usually with weak signals. Think about how much better the youth have it today, I have budding audiophile nephews who because of exposure via streaming know some of those obscure artists I also enjoy. We also support these artists via attending concerts from time to time. We wouldn't even have heard of these artists without streaming.

in the final analysis its silly to argue about the utility of streaming as it pertains to the distribution and enjoyment of music. At issue is a cost/benefit analysis for artists via past and present business models.There is valid argument vast majority of artists have never been properly paid for their endeavors. I'd just like to know since when has capitalism been fair to vast swaths of the masses. Streaming is here to stay, its up to artists and consumers upset with present streaming models to create a new, fairer business model. Lacking that, artists and consumers have the free choice to contribute and/or consume their music via streaming. Some will boycott streaming, providing absolutely no help to the artists, use your energies coming up with new business model that benefits artists more greatly.