The $27,900 disappointment? Wilson Audio Watt Puppy 8 issues.

@mclinnguy Just search YouTube for OCD Mikey.  Enjoy.

@texbychoice Link? 

Looks-wise, honestly, I would welcome Vivids in my home. Wilsons, never.

Different, weird, I can rationalize and even grow to love. Offensively ugly, I can't. Wilson designers actually went to great lengths to make those speakers painful to look at. The sculpted sides look like those fiberglass kit cars they made in the 70s.

Only Wilson Audio could make $1M speakers look cheap.

But Vivids? Any time. They are said to sound fantastic, too.

@devinplombier 

10 pairs of WAMMs were sold in the ‘80s,  if I am recalling Dave correctly. And most of those in the VERY early ‘80s. 

In the right room... with the right tastes. A friend of mine just bought a pair of Vivid Audio G3 S2's. Well... a different aesthetic from what I would go for. But he says they sound fantastic.

@ghdprentice I don't doubt it. I would welcome the opportunity to audition them..

What I don't get is why a person would tolerate these things in the beauty (hopefully) of their homes, candy apple paint job and all

@devinplombier

I have heard a predecessor. Absolutely the most incredible experience I have had in high end audio. Unbelievable holographic sound scape. If you have the money and like that kind of sound... simply amazing. 

https://www.soundroom.ca/products/wamm

If a pac-man machine copulated with a traffic light

Has any person ever bought a pair of these horrors, or are they just decoys meant to make the $500K ones look sensible?

@glennewdick 

The WATTS are 40 years old. They came out in 1984.

I owned WATTS back in 1986 and through until Series 4. And then Puppies when they came out in 1988. I'm not sure what is "wrong" about them sonically, if one has heard them - and owned them - at length.

What's the "nightmare" aspect of the speakers? I must have missed it. 

Oh and I see Merlin mentioned. Judd from Joule modified his personal Merlin speakers ever so slightly. I believe to tame the tweeter a bit. Compare the retail prices on the Wilsons vs the Merlins. I think it fair to expect less compromises (design flaws) with the Merlins.

Thanks for making the point of the Wilson detractors. It isnt about what is good for the salesman. 

The speakers seem to be too much of a nightmare to deal with. Is Wilson in decline?

Nope. They are doing just fine. Imagine how happy the salesman is when he sells a pair of these: 

https://www.soundroom.ca/products/wamm

@jim2 

We know, they don't.

Can you imagine any of the haters faces if they were hearing the NX-Tremes for the first time? 🤣

The speakers seem to be too much of a nightmare to deal with. Is Wilson in decline?

@vthokie83 ​​@devinplombier , @jim2 ,

Gentlemen, thank you all for setting me on the path to righteousness.

I shall clarify my position;

I think Danny is intelligent, extremely knowledgeable in his craft, and I have enjoyed more than a few of his videos. His speakers, though I’ve not heard them, are praised for the quality to price ratio. At no time ever have I insulted his craft, his honesty, or his integrity and I think it unfair to be corralled in with those here who have. This was not my intention. I was simply expressing my gratitude that he finally stopped going to his sister’s stylist. So @jim2 , if you can’t distinguish my silly joke from the haters, I suggest you call Danny and see if he can wire you up a sense of humor. Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m off to make fun of Rick Beato’s sideburns.

thecarpathian

Recently there was a thread about some abysmally stupid statement YouTuber Rick Beato made in an effort to ingratiate himself with his geriatric audience. A lively discussion ensued, and not once did I mention his terrible sideburns. You can do it man!!

thecarpathian

The occasional quip is just fine. On this particular thread, I think that this was a thread with a very interesting subject....and it deteriorated into too much off topic, and lost the value that it should have had

"Others have made some fairly nasty comments about Danny, resorting to talking about his hair."

Why is it I poke a little harmless fun at his choice of hairstyles and I’m singled out as the poster boy for nastiness?? I’d write more concerning this travesty but I’m late for my mullet trimming appointment...

Yes indeed @sns ​​​​@jim2  +++

@jim2 ++   As previously mentioned I own diy modified Merlin VSM, Danny on right track with these as well.

At present another thread here in regard to people  offering 'expert' advice/knowledge of things they have no direct experience with. The 'experts' here are those who've availed themselves of Danny's services, the rest is conjecture or worse.

Seems like audio is a religion for some, criticize some equipment they own or is it believe in and you'll be called a heretic or worse.

toddalin

294 posts

01-25-2025 at 02:10pm

The problem as I see it is that you can’t really compare the changes he makes because you can’t A/B them in real time with the before version.

And, anyone who spends a bunch of $$$ for a modification will have a bias toward it just because they did.

Well... unless you are me... the guy who sent Danny the Wilson Audio Duette speakers, which have their own external "Novel" crossover and a direct comparison can be made. You never know... you may see more about that someday.

Others have made some fairly nasty comments about Danny, resorting to talking about his hair. It’s laughable... because I know every single one of you have:

1) Never heard Danny’s speakers such that it would make you would spew the bile you are.

2) Never dealt with Danny Richie.

Danny is a stand up guy. I’ve sent him 3 pairs of speakers, including with Wilson Audio Duette and Merlin Music VSM. (Heresy!) I also think Danny would help himself by not giving birdseed on the ground for others by slagging so hard on bad designs, even if they are bad.

People want the Truth... unless you are talking about THEIR speaker / brand.

Maybe he should say... "This needs to be better" and that will be code for "This is junk".

The gnashing of teeth about speakers and how PERSONALLY some take it... it’s always gonna be a thing, I guess.

I have been in the room and watched Danny do this upgrade process. I watched him do the upgrade for the Merlin VSM.

Those of you who think you know and are talking about Danny’s hair or whatever...

Here’s the thing... I know that you don’t know what you’re talking about... and I’m chuckling at your words. You KNOW, I know you don’t know.

Just stop... you’re embarrassing yourselves and you are smarter people than that.

Oh, and for the "Wilson Owners" (remember, I am one) looking down your nose at all of this, thinking Danny it just scraping up crumbs and YOUR stuff is actually beyond reproach.

This is not a "price" thing... this is a "Performance" thing with GR Research / Danny.

"Wilson Owners" don’t buy GR Research stuff? You mean, "People who can afford to buy expensive things would not buy GR Research speakers." Really?

Well, I did...and I’ve also bought:

• Ayre Acoustics KX-R Twenty Preamp
• Ayre Acoustics MX-R Twenty monoblocks
• Ayre Acoustics QX-5 Twenty Digital Hub
• On Monday, an order for Cardas Clear Reflection wire is going in.

Does that qualify as snob level gear... but I’m also doing "DIY"? Why?

It’s because many of you are getting PUNK’D by speaker companies with flowery prose, special names for stuff they use to make boxes for speakers, who don’t share measurements, and pot their crossovers so you can’t even see what you are buying.

Who’s conning who, exactly?

One thing is for sure... ignorance and a checkbook can buy Bliss...

I’ve been there, I’ve heard it, I’ve seen it...

I have found "It"... and many of you are still looking for "It".

Good Luck, the answer is right in front of you.

@toddalin +1 this also applies to people who use measurements to justify their audio experience.

The problem as I see it is that you can’t really compare the changes he makes because you can’t A/B them in real time with the before version.

And, anyone who spends a bunch of $$$ for a modification will have a bias toward it just because they did.

Danny has measured and modified many  Klipsch Heritage. I have Khorns, agree with the issues he brings up in his  Heritage videos. I couldn't have lived with these speakers in stock form, with many diy mods instituted over a number of years I addressed these issues and now have my dream loudspeaker. No doubt I went further than his mods, but his understanding of defects and solutions in regard to these speakers is correct.

No easy thing critiquing audiophile equipment, audiophiles don't like hearing their equipment choices being criticized.

I liked his points because he pointed out illogical design elements. That is, aspects which make no sense and cant be good. 

@ozzy62 , I disagree. Forming an opinion with measurements is foolish if you have no experience. Danny's has measured thousands of speakers. He knows what measurements translate into good sound. Obviously,  his idea of good sound could differ from yours, but my personal experience says his good sound meshes well with mine. 

It amazes me how people love bad measuring equipment.  I have listened to many highly regarded audio components and been left cold. If it measures well, I usually like the sound. Some folks like distortion, and that's OK. This hobby has enough variety to satisfy all. 

Is Danny a hero or a con man? See what you get for stating anything negative about a higher end audio product. And you all wonder why we don't see any negative reviews, best to stay on the safe side and at least give faint praise to everything. But then you say you don't trust all these positive reviews, which is it people!

EXTRA, EXTRA...READ ALL ABOU IT

Jay’s Audio Lab <---> Danny Richie Interview

Wilson VS Magico Speakers, Danner Hammer praises Magico...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebfP2ivnjM

Alon Magic Wolf appears to be the real winner in all of this....

All the defeated/slayed Wilson refugees are running off to Magico, hereafter.

Alon’s partying hard tonight, getting sloshed at the bar, cashing checks at the bank next door........Magico owners....let’s go dancin tonight...party party party party

Shedding light in dark places obviously disturbs the cockroaches.

Doesn’t he make his own speakers?

Maybe he should send a 20 yr old design to Wilson for them to measure and improve upon . If they can.

Danny should watch more Uncle Paul videos and learn ruthless hucksterism from a grand master

I think Danny could be a little more diplomatic and tell the positives about the speakers he is upgrading, obviously there aren't all negatives. He could praise the stuff that is done right and then go into what can be improved on.

The GR dude does come across as kinda dishonest in those videos trashing speakers, honestly.

At the same time, it looks like he’s legit, and some of his speakers are well-regarded.

So maybe he’s not doing himself any favors with the YouTube shtick. Upgrade kits can’t be such a big part of his business anyway.

Which of the following is truer?

1. Negativity is bad for sales

2. Any attentoin is good attention

Wilson speakers utilize some wonderful ideas and the execution is often very good. However, I think a case can be made they dont sound nearly as good as they could. Now that they abandoned that awful tweeter they sound better. The problems with Wilson speakers could be considered bad engineering and design.

Once again this thread veers from Wilson to if you are a Danny fan or not. 

mulveling

We live in a clickbait era, so these videos get him a large audience plus a ready market to buy his stuff.

Yup. There are quite a few of these clickbait audio "experts." A handful have carved out a little niche for themselves.

Wilson is a mass market speaker brand??

@mulveling 

You might want to be aware of facts before jumping on the keyboard to spread nonsense.  Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about.  Danny does more critical listening in a proper musical system and proper room than the rest of us individually in our lifetimes.

Fixing speakers sent to him is a small part of the overall business.  More importantly, he revealed the emperor (mass market speaker brands) has no clothes. 

Guys like this place actual listening, in a proper musical system, DEAD LAST. It's all about getting their test rig to show a flat FR, plus a BOM with little room for profit. So boring - like most speakers designed this way. 

We live in a clickbait era, so these videos get him a large audience plus a ready market to buy his stuff. Good for him. 

It is pretty much anything "manufacturer direct" that seems to get trashed here, a trend i see. It could be the middle men who don't get a piece of the 'manufacturer direct' pie perhaps.

Wilson $27900 - minimum Middle man/Dealer's cut, 50% ($13950) = $13950

That's a big chunk of the pie to miss out on.

Tekton speakers are trashed by some here and I guess they would prefer to spend $27,900 on a Wilson that does not measure as well as it should. The bottom line- some fellow goners here like to hear themselves talk when everything they say is utter nonsense. They would have us think THEY are the speaker designers... not the makers of Wilson, Tekton or GR Research.

Tekton speakers are trashed by some here and I guess they would prefer to spend $27,900 on a Wilson that does not measure as well as it should. The bottom line- some fellow goners here like to hear themselves talk when everything they say is utter nonsense. They would have us think THEY are the speaker designers... not the makers of Wilson, Tekton or GR Research.

Send the speakers in?  For what possible reason?

Nobody listens to them anyway.

Wilson is the world's leading high end speaker company.  In the final analysis their designs are tuned by critical listeners with extensive live music experience.  Dave Wilson in this case. The Watt/Puppy, recently reintroduced, remains the largest selling high end speaker of all time.

People don't spend that kind of money on badly designed speakers. 

I find it interesting that people love to hatchet others that they don't know on the 'net.

@livinon2wheels

I've known Danny for many, many years.  He and I don't agree on everything and that is OK.  He is extremely well respected in the industry, customers and reviewers because his designs bring the goods.  Trashing a person and gear that you don't know is the best way to get the rep of being a troll here.  His speaker upgrade service is ~ 5% of his business and he does not charge for the design work.  He makes his $$$ on parts used to build his design.

There are reasons that "The GR Research" rooms at audio shows were consistently judged among the best in SQ at those exhibitions.  I was at that RMAF he referenced in his video concerning the Wilson Audio room.  The Wilson Alexandria X2 ($158,00.00) driven by VTL Siegfried monoblocks ($65,000.00) were a huge disappointment.  Too loud, too harsh in a room with zero treatment.

Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with results:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=99738.msg1004792#msg1004792

@simonmoon ,

+100  Nailed it!  

Age of the Wilson speakers is irrelevant.  Good speaker design was not discovered last week.

About the craziest thread I've ever heard

@hiend2 ,

You want crazy, like room with the rubber wallpaper crazy, go over to the 'Best audio prank ideas' thread.

Are they not a 20 year old speaker at this piont, i'd imagine Wilson has improved much since then. 

As a long time builder of high end DIY speakers, using high quality parts, good engineering practices, and hours of listening with a panel of several people to "voice them".

I can state pretty confidently, that the modifications and upgrades Danny makes, are all following good engineering practices, with the goal of improving sound quality.

Flattening out the very choppy frequency response, compensating for edge diffraction, improving impedance curves, reducing stored energy of the drivers, etc, is NOT a difference of opinion with the original designer on the voicing of the speaker.

Bad design (as seen in the original measurements of the Watt/Puppy’s in the vid), is bad design.

No good designer would set out to design a speaker with that frequency response as a goal, if they were shooting for accuracy.

I am pretty balanced between an objective and subjective listener, when the context is correct for them, but there are certain objectively measurable parameters that almost always lead to an inferior sounding speaker.

Just for context, I don’t own any of Danny’s speakers (I have bought his NoRes damping material), but I have heard a pair of his current 2nd top of the line kits, NX-Otica, and for the $3800 price, (and a couple of weekends of labor), the end resulting speaker can easily compete with the sound quality of speakers at 4X the price, without exaggeration.

I also helped a friend upgrade a pair of Klipsch speakers with Danny’s upgrade kits, and they succeeded in turning an unlistenable pair of speakers, into a decent budget pair of speakers.

This whole hobby revolves around first world problems.