YouTube Indicates What the Future is For Audiophiles - Interesting Demographics.
Howdy,
I just wanted to share some data from YouTube as I found it quite eye-opening and thought some of you might too.
I've posted a couple vids on YouTube recently and, as some will know, YouTube provides analytics data with every video, which is available to the channel owner.
The first video featured a Krell KSA 80 amp and at the time of writing this there have been 9,500 views:
Female - 0%
Male - 100%
13–17 years 0%
18–24 years 0%
25–34 years 0%
35–44 years 0.9%
45–54 years 13.5%
55–64 years 44.4%
65+ years 41.3%
So, 100% male, and pretty much all of the traffic is from guys 45 years old and above, with 40%+ from guys over 65!!
The second video was a spoof (song) on Audiophiles that was shared a lot and watched by a lot of audiophile spouse, so the stats were slightly different, but not much. At the time of writing, 18,150 views:
Female 2.4%
Male 97.6%
13–17 years 0%
18–24 years 0%
25–34 years 0%
35–44 years 5.9%
45–54 years 18.6%
55–64 years 35.5%
65+ years 40.1%
The video was watched by a few females because it was shared and hit with a slightly younger audience but not by much. For all intents and purposes, the stats are the same for both vids.
Caveat - YouTube tends to attract an older audience and it's tipped up towards males. TikTok would show different results, but I think YouTube is really the platform of choice for most of us, so the data is more pertinent.
Conclusion - we're a dying breed. 40% of us will be dead in a few years and there's not many 'yoots' coming through to replace us.
No real surprise here but we're all blokes - old, fat, sweaty, bearded, and about to kick the proverbial bucket. (Yes, I'm speaking entirely for myself).
Do you think there's more that manufacturers, dealers, reviewers etc. should be doing, or is it just the inevitable playing out?
its also the demographic that can afford most of the stuff we call audiophile equipment.
Also Audiophiles have made a bad name for themselves with their silliness and absolute snobbery to younger generations as a whole, not everyone of course but as a whole.
Just hang out in a few "audiophile snake oil" groups and you'll see how the rest of people out there think of us as a whole. We are disappearing because we have done it to our selves and our silliness to believe every next best thing in audio even when its just snake oil, we defend that to the death even when its probably snake oil.
We spend stupid money on gear that is well frankly not worth the money in many cases but will die for that gear if questioned.
We also are a disappearing generation of musical tastes where modern music is meant/mastered to be played on head phones and sound bars, Not in a dedicated listening room.
Then there is the space needed for many of our systems, young people cant afford to dedicate a whole room to listening to music, especially in their 500sqft condos worth more then our 2500sqft houses from a few decades ago.
times are changing and so will music listening. I don't see much of a future for many of the hi end companies, some of the larger ones will survive but i doubt many of the smaller outfits will, specially the one man shows or smaller companies. They tend to die off when the founder dies and most of the founders are older now.
I have to agree with @glennewdick. We are a dying breed, but I don't think that it's anything to be depressed about. We should be glad that we have been, and will continue to be until our last days, part of a very exciting era. We saw the glory days and enjoyed them, and we continue to enjoy the music and our systems.
What happens in the future to the industry will simply reflect the current interests and tasted of the public in general. Will they be missing something great? I think so, but they won't know what they're missing because they never knew it to begin with. We need to just realize how lucky we have been.
Agree with both posters above. What’s depressing to me is the rate at which it’s going to happen, judging from those age stats. Does anyone think the industry at large could do more to appeal to younger generations and also to the multiple genders that aren’t male :) ?
It's the nature of life that times change. Today, everyone has a camera in his phone. You can't buy a new Corvette with a stick shift. There are 24 states with legal cannabis and conservative Florida may be next.
@stuartkThanks, I wasn’t ’looking’ for anything, I was just sharing some specific data that’s a day old and hasn’t been shared before.
My questions were whether or not manufacturers, dealers etc. could do more to try and address these issues, and to support a concern with some actual data that’s fresh. It’s rhetorical in a sense, I know about the issues, I’ve been involved in the debates about the downward trends, etc. I just wish there were some new initiative, that’s all.
Also, I think most topics around here have been discussed more than once in the past :) and I think this one deserves to be brought back to the surface every once in a while, with some relevant and up to date data and feedback. I guess people are free to chime in or not.
Why are you surprised that a video about an amplifier made when Ronald Reagan was president would only attract older viewers. Make a video about a portable Bluetooth loudspeaker and see if the demographics change.
@onhwy61- I have. Several. In fact, the second video for which I showed the stats in the OP was a trendier and more modern video, actually a song set to a soft rap beat. I was hoping to catch a younger more diverse audience with that, but I didn’t as you can see from the stats. 50% of all the traffic to that video came from external audiophile forums, Facebook high-end groups etc. And with the internal YouTube traffic, the ’audiophile’ theme dominated the search terms used to find the video in YT search, and the videos chosen automatically by YT from which to suggest it to new viewers.
So it’s the same basic set of stats for two very different vids. As soon as you mention ’audiophile’ or ’high-end audio’, all the old blokes come out to play. It’s always been our problem, connecting with the younger crowds, and with women, but in the past we’ve somehow managed to keep replenishing the pool. Now, it looks like nothing new is coming through...
PS - I think the portable Bluetooth loudspeaker demographic are doing okay, they're not the focus here, but are certainly the present and future.
This has always been a vastly male dominated hobby. That's not a problem IMO, and it's unnatural to try and force otherwise. The age problem is extremely concerning, though it's not like this hasn't been telegraphed for ages. Other cultures (especially Asians) seem to have less of a problem here. The hifi headphone segment has less of a problem too, but it's somewhat surprising / concerning this hasn't become a pipeline into traditional 2ch audiophilia.
I'm mid-40s and originally bridged over to 2ch from headphones 20 years ago. If I were getting into the hobby today, I'd be extremely put off by the disparity of having to choose between amazing but now incredibly unaffordable gear made in USA / Japan / Europe, versus cheap mass-produced ChiFi (some of which is not so cheap anymore!). Where'd the "great stuff" in the middle go? The industry seems increasingly dominated by these 2 poles.
Almost, as if by rote, these topics come up. Someone needs to do a study on how many times it’s done by this male dominated hobby and figure out if it’s a slow motion death knell of sorts. The last gasps of a dying herd as we flail on the shore, beached, unable to get back into audiophile waters.
Audiophile audio dying out will be one of the lesser problems future generations will have to deal with.
It’d be nice if the kids enjoyed music like we do, but they don’t. One thing we can do is try to get our music collections into the hands of someone younger who does like to sit and listen to music rather than having it hauled to the dump when our time is up.
You're absolutely right!!! High end audio, audiophiles, those of us ages approx. 45-85, and the overall high end audio industry are, in fact, a dying bread. There's a couple of principle factors, IMHO, that are contributing to the decline. #1-The music. The decline of todays music industry as a whole (the decline of the quality of the music). When Baby Boomers and Generation X were coming along during the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's, the music industry was on a whole other level than what it is today. Listening to your favorite brand of music back in those days was more like a religious experience, which inspire the young to purchase full blown starter audio systems. And those young music lovers later became high end audio purchasers as they grew older and more successful and were able to afford it. The dichotomy between the young (who are the future of high end audio) and how contemporary music inspires them, and also how todays music inspires them to evolve into high end audiophiles, has been on the declining for over 30 years. #2- The high end audio industry: Well, I guess the principles of cause and effect have cornered and forced the high end audio industry to pretty much abandon the young, who seem to have very little interest in high end audio, who primarily listen to their music via streaming it through cheap headphones. In facing todays reality regarding the high end, the high end audio industry recognizes that the future of the high end audio industry as a whole is in jeopardy, and have now decided to market their wares almost exclusively to us old, grey haired, senior citizen audiophiles who still love our good old turn tables, reel to reel players and CD players, which represent our heyday, and how things were when we were young. To the young, all the old mediums are merely old relics of the past that are from a bygone era. The high end audio industry makes no effort to capture the imagination of the young and has become somewhat of an excusive club for the more well heeled, middle aged and beyond audiophile who're willing to spend 50K, Lol, on a turn table, or 250K on a pair of speakers. No, the young, the future of high end audio, aren't interested. In any event, honestly, although, nowadays, I stream exclusively, I wish that all the old mediums from the past: CD, reel to reel, cassette, turn tables, and even 8 track, would make a huge comeback, and would also somehow start to resonate with the young on a much higher level, just to see the high end audio industry return to it's former glory!!!! Happy listening.
This demographic probably has not changed in 75 years. Just a fact that all the old farts have the time and money for this pursuit. A young man ain’t got nothing in the world these days.
This demographic probably has not changed in 75 years. Just a fact that all the old farts have the time and money for this pursuit. A young man ain’t got nothing in the world these days.
I wish that all the old mediums from the past: CD, reel to reel, cassette, turn tables, and even 8 track, would make a huge comeback, and would also somehow start to resonate with the young on a much higher level, just to see the high end audio industry return to it's former glory!!!! Happy listening.
Thanks for your thoughtful post. I particularly appreciated the snippet above. I think there's a lot to be said for physical media ownership. I think in some small way it also drives the quality of the music, which is one of the big issues in all of this (as you mentioned earlier in your post). Buying an album used to be an experience beyond the actual music, and you don't get that to the same extent these days.
I remember bringing home 'A Trick of the Tail' for the first time, and 'News of the World'. You have to think that a band who would put so much energy into the production of their artwork might also invest similarly in the creation of their music?
Cheers
PS - I'm old and senile but I never said in the OP that any of this was new or hot off the press.
I completely agree. I'm 62...I've been in this hobby for 40 years. I still have a great 2 channel system- Coda/Harbeth/Pass Labs/PS Audio/VPI/Auralic/Audience. My friends love my audio system. However when they ask my advice I tell them-buy a very good bluetooth speaker and get Spotify. I have no problem spending big money on gear, but in good conscience I can't recommend anyone I like do the same.
You’d think the industry would want to somehow adjust its marketing and business plan, knowing its aging customer base will only be around for a few more years.
I think the demographics would be the same 20 years ago and in 20 years. When I was younger I was out doing active stuff and disposable income was spent on kids and pay off debt.
Ear buds and streaming music is pretty good. If you are more serious a headphone amp and headphones gets you there. Not sure the average person wants to spend any more money than that.
So what happens with all this audio equipment as audiophiles age out or leave the planet? Think about all the equipment that's been accumulated by boomers over all these years involved in this hobby/obsession. Is it hoarded then junked, sold only to other boomer audiophiles, sold to younger crowd, willed to younger family members? You'd think at least some of this equipment goes to younger crowd, so much equipment, so few audiophiles.
If only the elderly are purchasing audio equipment there will soon come a day when fewer audiophiles will lead to severe depreciation of all this equipment, would lower prices bring younger cohorts into the hobby?
I don’t know that anecdotal evidence from one video about a 30 year old vintage amplifier can give any indication of the future of this hobby. It’s already been pointed out several times, in this discussion, that the age ranges for those with disposable income are generally in the age ranges you site. I think, without any evidence that, as @12Many pointed out, it’s likely not changed from 20 years ago and will likely be the same 20 years from now. There is also a large community of content creators on YouTube that cater to less expensive but respectable quality hi-fi gear. I think there are many manufacturers making affordable components that have high value relative to their lower price. Based on this I believe the industry has thought about how to attract interest from younger audiophiles. This, like many other hobbies, seems to cater to a niche so the question I have is whether there is enough interest to maintain the relative size of that community across the spectrum of affordability (meaning the spectrum from high priced equipment to affordable entry level. equipment) so that the next generation of 40-60 year olds with disposable income is of sufficient size to adequately replace us. That was a really long winded way to say I don’t think it’s all doom and gloom.
I have a young friend who is 32 years old. I am 69 years old.
He was one of those "young people" that had only listened to earbuds, TV speakers and the occasional concert. The first time we had him and his girlfriend over for dinner, by half way through the evening he was glued in the sweet spot with the iPad in hand and a huge grin on his face.
I would say that there are many future audiophiles out there, just waiting to be exposed to high quality sound and to have some actual disposable income.
Interesting post, even if not all that new. The Youtube stats are interesting; I haven't seen quite such dramatic "empirical evidence" of these trends before.
But, FWIW, my experience doesn't quite correspond. For one thing, I'm a university professor and have many young friends and acquaintances, both among my students and among the younger faculty. Pretty much all of them love music in one way or another. It has been pointed out here that a good pair of headphones is a reasonable facsimile of what we go in for, especially for the young who can't afford either the gear or the physical space necessary for audio nirvana. But as they get older and richer, who knows? (Still, home ownership is in steep decline, and apartments don't really support superlative listening circumstances, for several obvious reasons.)
Another thing: we have a very active audio club here on the California central coast, and several members are women. Not a parity, but not "0%" either!
A young person listening to spatial audio/apple music on some decent headphones will be thoroughly disappointed when he hears overpriced dinosaur stereo and Krell. The former is that good and the latter is on death row for many a legitimate reason.
Some young household with square footage to spare will go with a multipurpose entertainment system/HT type of setup for tv, movies, music, playstation, etc. Only dinosaurs like myself would dedicate a large room for death row stereo. To be fair, dinosaurs never had netflix or big screens at home growing up.
I am in a midwestern city (cheaper houses with basements), which has a very high percentage of young people (25 to 40 maybe) with affordable hometheater rigs. It could be true in other midwestern and some southern cities too. The coasts may be different because young people can only afford a shack or closet there.
Women have ears and money too, but, somebody needs to introduce these things to them the right way...or they’ll be sticking to headphones.
@rooze As previously mentioned, in my old age, I’ve grown fond of streaming my music exclusively. But, I do have plenty of warm, fond, heartfelt memories of all those many decades of physical media. I just attended the Pacific Audio Fest, and there was a turn table, or a turn table and a reel to reel in just about every room. The rooms which featured both reel to reel and a turn table harkened me back to the audio systems I owned way back in the seventies and eighties. Happy listening.
When I came of age back in the early 70’s there wasn’t much to do besides smoke pot and listen to music. There were no computers,no cable tv, and no internet. There were fewer distractions. People read books for pleasure. Another demographic which has almost disappeared. We enjoyed the best music. Everyone could afford to be an audiophile. State of the art in those days was a pair of Bose 901’s or JBL 100’s or advents. Most of us had our systems in a bedroom,basement or dorm. These days young people have multiple screens,and an infinite variety of media competing for attention. No one under 30 sits down and only listens to music without multitasking. I guess we really are a dying breed.
My son, 35 yrs/old, has a 40'x60' shop/gym/party room with one boom box, blue tooth, speaker thing. I offered an old system of mine but nope, didn't want it. OK.
He's building a new 3700 sq/ft home & of course I ask about a listening room. Nope,
None of us knows what's coming next. Might as well just kick back and enjoy what we have. Doesn't matter a whit if we or our things become outmoded. That's an inevitability we have been living with forever.
My son, 35 yrs/old, has a 40’x60’ shop/gym/party room with one boom box, blue tooth, speaker thing. I offered an old system of mine but nope, didn’t want it. OK.
He’s building a new 3700 sq/ft home & of course I ask about a listening room. Nope, All they use are phones with ear buds. He wasn’t raised that way. Ha
When you said "listening room", you said the wrong thing. You should have said "home theater" and a projector to watch his football games and movies in a life like manner.
Home Theater is the gateway drug for a younger guy/gal to explore audiophila. When he accidentally listened to some real music on it with the subwoofers n all, it would have sounded pretty good (lot better than bluetooth boombox) and that could have been the start of audiophilia/associated exploration/additional gear refinement.
Yup. Stuff changes over time. I have tons of money into film photography equipment, the current generation is primarily interested in toy cameras when they shoot film. Motorcycle manufacturers are selling more scooters and fewer upscale bikes. Next will be the automotive industry; most of my kid’s generation view cars as appliances. People are becoming more mobile and less interested in owning tons of possessions that they will need to drag around every few years. Maybe it’s a good thing.
I have seven different hobbies. For decades, most of them have been "dying off". Funny, most are still around. Stamp collecting doesn't have the crowd it once did but most are doing just fine. As one group dies off, the next comes of age and takes their place. Yes, the ranks are thinner than they used to be in some cases but that's probably because it's so much easier to have varied interests in the internet age.
I had a conversation in Chicago with a representative of a prominent old vacuum tube component company wherein I pointed out that at the show most all the attendees were men with "a touch of gray". I (what's left of it is gray) asked him (also gray) how this boded for the future of his sales of their 90K amps, etc. Instead of carefully considering a few ideas to reach the younger guys with money he got uppity with me! I further explained that it was no longer the 70s, 80s or even the early 90s and copping an attitude may have worked when their room was full of excited listeners lined up to buy their fussy tube gear but the fact remained that the universe of available buyers was shrinking rapidly.
My point: No flexibility, no creativity, and no real plan equals death. Copping an attitude won't solve this reality.
What's my not-in-the-biz idea? Make a fantastic sounding integrated piece that drives a set of bookshelf sized speakers (that actually sound good on a book shelf) that costs under 5K. That would sell IMO. With all that lovely cash continue to build and sell had made bespoke components that us addicted guys will buy. If the first guy falls in love with music he will matriculate to the high end stuff in time.
Just my 2 cents. I also prefer French Vanilla ice-cream and you may be a chocolate chunk guy. Just different dudes with different opinions.
The novelty isn't there. Most of the 50 yo and older group still came up in the time when good 2 channel gear was stepping out of the tube era where stereophonic recording was still a novelty. A stereo was prized possession of many young persons. So was a good collection of albums. A tape deck in the stack was an eventual addition so that your vinyl music could be portable. Tech has changed all that. Earbuds, streaming, wireless speakers have all changed the experience of recorded music, mainly due to the quantity and quality available in mobile and portable equipment. My first system, the only means I had to hear recordings for many years, was in no way portable. I had to sit in front of it and listen. Having a home system just isn't the priority as a means of enjoyment of music for younger people now. Two-channel listening is more likely to be introduced to them via earbuds and headphones, not via stacks of rack-width gear and loudspeakers. They have to be introduced to stationary listening. Vinyl is a novelty, not the necessary default it was decades ago.
Then there is the economic issue. Audiophile gear has become excessively expensive, and I am not referring to the stratospheric prices of extremely rare gear, just ordinary stuff. There are many more demands on the budgets of younger people now than there used to be, and necessities have become much more expensive in relative terms. Clunky, specific-purpose listening gear is going to have a limited appeal anyway, but going forward, it will be increasingly more so. It is a pity some commenters disparage "lifestyle" products when those are the products most likely to find an acceptable place in homes in the future.
I like what Devon Turnbull of OJAS is doing. He’s the guy making avantgarde horn systems and electronics and partnering with art galleries to produce functional art-audio installations. He’s successfully connecting with a younger crowd who appreciate art, aesthetics, creativity, and functional minimalism. He’s ‘selling’ an experience, versus flogging expensive ‘stuff’. It’s an interesting concept and a novel approach. He’s young (relatively), cool, and talented. Versus the typical audio manufacturer who’s stereotypically older, bald and boring.
He won’t save the industry but it will never die completely so long as people keep finding creative ways in which to keep us alive.
Also, a nod to Linn Audio - they were an audiophile manufacturer for decades then made a conscious switch to ‘lifestyle products’. Again, a strong emphasis on aesthetics blended with practical and functional design. While it’s still audiophile at heart it attracts a different audience, younger, more interested in convenience, aesthetics. I think Linn and a few others saw the writing on the wall.
Maybe it won’t be a death it will just be a morphing into another form.
When we were young, our stereo systems were “the” thing. There was no internet, no video games and rock & roll was exploding. So, it became part of who we were…and are.
Our kids grew up with social media and video games. The technology exploded in their young lives and the quality keeps getting better, just as it has in audio. I suspect young people will be playing incredibly advanced video games well into old age. Sitting in front of a pair of speakers in a dark room will go the way of the dodo bird. Not only don’t they want it, the industry has priced itself so far out of reason, I suspect the high end audio hobby has maybe 20 years left before it fades away for good.
Look at cheap audio man channel, or Andrew Robinson, and the story changes. ChiFi, Head-Fi, Emotive etc. You will not even get me to look at a Krell video (own a Pass). Also in my direct circle, a 30ish woman into her Klipsch speakers, a sub 30 guy building his own speakers, an early 20 guy into headphones - girlfriend into vinyl, mid twenty girl into 78s and gramophone. I only know one oldsters who is into hifi, and he owns a hi-end store.
Also some like me are coming late to the audiophile game, after 50. Always loved music, but financial priorities were elsewhere.
This discussion is gathering a lot of interest, most of it from nostalgia. The youth of today, like the youth of any period, is listening to what is played at the time on whatever equipment is available at the time at a cost they can afford. Whatever music comes out nowadays, it is mainly meant for your phone/ computer which can be hooked up to all kinds of real inexpensive electronics to distribute the music at the touch of your finger. Things are evolving so fast that no youth is interested in equipment that came out 5 years ago. It's called progress. Us old folks think that things are moving too fast, but we have seen nothing yet with AI trying to take over. Enjoy your audiophile hobby but don't fool yourself thinking you can change the direction of it. Like us, it's dying. Only the billionaires will keep the Uber end of it alive, buying crazy expensive stuff that nobody really needs. I just checked out the latest most expensive sales on discogs this month, over 8k for old LPs and about as much for 45s, and they will often sound worse than their digital remasters. With streaming, I no longer make these stupid purchases since I'm no billionaire. Same for equipment, with newer electronics you don't need to spend 10x more on anything to get great sound. The audiophile world is only sustained by olf folks living in the past or young billionaires who don't have to care about their money. Ok multi millionaires too. Nowadays a millionaire still has to watch his money.
To kennymacc’s wish: other than a small % of people under about 35 now who think that owning a turntable & a few “vinyls” as many of that age group call them, or tapes & CD’s, most couldn’t be bothered & probably never will be.
I’m our crazy, sped up world, many people’s attention spans are dwindling & thus the huge popularity of Tik Tok & Instagram. It’s 10 seconds & on the next thing. Streaming is the only way most listen to music & quite honestly, I listen streaming about 75% of the time now albeit on high end stuff mostly because I’m getting lazy but also really enjoying a lot of great re -mastered recordings that sound much better than the originals.
Forgetting about the quality & intent of the actual recording quality, a lot of the new music coming out today isn’t great & is mostly forgotten within a year w/ very few good follow up songs after the initial but quickly fleeting fame it conjures. With that in mind, why would many want to buy the album or CD version if it even exists. Of course there are exceptions to this in every musical genre but fewer & fewer.
@rooze thank you very much for initiating this discussion. I'm sure everyone who is reading this are in the hobby and share the passion. I have shared the passion with my two children who are in their mid twenties. They both have starter systems and have a real love of music and appreciate when the music they love is properly presented. Interestingly, versus the YouTube stats that were presented, one of my children is female. I made her some custom speaker cables last Christmas and she was so happy she cried.
I think it's up to all of us to share our passion and make sure the torch never goes out. Cheers
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