Do speaker cables really make a difference ?

Thanks for all the responses. I am thinking about trying Anti Cables speaker wire. It's very thin wire and unless they made the reviews up themselves, they are highly thought of by different users. Any thoughts on Anti Cables ?

Thanks!

When I got Magneplanar MG3s 38 years ago I replaced the 10 gauge Monster Cable (zip cord on steroids) with FMS 1810, much less copper, but designed with multiple thin solid core conductors like AQ, and these were 20+ foot runs. The increase in clarity heard through the ribbons was not subtle. Clearest case I ever heard for the audibility of cable changes. I now have Cardas Cygnus, Transparent Music Wave and Nordost Purple Flare all under 10 feet.  I’m using the Cardas but my hearing isn’t so good anymore. 

When you skimp on cables you loose the potential signal quality delivering the music .

Not trying to be snarky, but genuinely curious, for anyone who might know the answer why:

Spending time in recording studios, ADR stages, and theatrical mixing stages, there are no exotic high-end cables being used (that I’ve seen.) No cables from any of the hifi brand names we all know. There are multi thousand dollar microphones, hundreds of thousands in servers, processing, mixing consoles, etc. But mic cables, interconnects, patch cables, speaker cables, power cables, etc., all of the cabling at these facilities (that I’ve seen) is utilitarian, standard issue recording industry brands. (The facilities are some of the best and most used in the world for music recording/mixing and movie/television postproduction.)

As someone who has owned expensive hifi cables, I wonder why a playback system somehow requires better more expensive cables than the very system where the source material was originally captured and mixed.

Why bother....

40.years ago Monster Cable provided dealers with an A/B cable switch for demonstration of their product with 16 GA lamp cable. At under a10 ft no one could reliably tell them apart. At 20 ft, Monster Cable became noticeably better. One customer brought in some (I think) Audioquest cables to compare. They were very different looking, but sounded no different. They were however 4X the cost of the MC. 0ne trick i learned was to coil the extra cable of a competitor - creating a series inductor and low pass filter making the system sound dull. The longer lengths also had higher resistance, negatively impacting the bass. As for patch cables, just use a good affordable cable and Deoxit. If youre worried about power cables and don't have a dedicated and conditioned 20A circuit and hospital grade outlets, you're kidding yourself. Even then, if the wire gauges are matched for a very high current load like a power amp, youre not apt to make any improvements or prevent any degradation. The amps power supply will handle momentary load demands. Finally, digital cables make no difference. They are binary (pun intended), they work or they don't.

Upgrading to RAMM Audio OCC copper cable made a significant difference over my AudioQuest cables.

Back in the day    ...... and we liked it.

(It's a link)

Yes they make a difference.

But it is of less contribution the big elephant in your system for "sounding".

Most are connecting their speaker cable between a crossover and a (power) amplifier.

It has so much bigger impact that we use and have a big crossover between the amplifier and the speaker driver.

If do the crossover is before the power amplifier that is connected directly to the driver/speaker. That is "sounding" considerable better than a speaker cable swap in a passive system. Of so many reasons.

The only drawback is convenience, convenience and convenience.

Go active if you want a cheaper way for getting high end sound in the LONG run. Or keep switching out your amps, speakers (including speaker cables) in different ways rest of your life in hope to get a different result..

Make a change that counts or live with a system compromise because of convenience in my opinion and experience.

Since you're on the topic of speaker cables, does anyone have any knowledge or experience with Kubala Sosna cables? Thanks.

@jasonbourne52 

I'm sceptical of cable claims too.  But not such a flat-earther as to say speaker cables make no difference.  If you can hear an improvement in a bliind test then spend a bit of money on speaker cables but never nearly as much as on an active component such as speakers, amps, source.  A few $100 maybe.  Always test blind; never give in to confirmation bias.

But mains cables and fuses cannot make any difference as long as they are correctly rated.  Volts is volts, amps is amps, but cable can change the presentation of a complex musical waveform.

There is only one way to find out, as I recently did for my own curiosity. Reading what others think, either for or against, about the need for "better" cables is useless. You need to make that determination yourself. Follow what I did and you will have your answer. Contact a retailer that will allow for a return within 60 days. All it will cost you is the return shipping to make your own determination. It would have cost me all of $28 + insurance to find out for myself that YES, speaker cables and interconnects do make a difference. So I kept them. I contacted a popular online retailer and asked them to ship a full set of the most recent Shunyata Venom-X cables. The first cables I swapped out were the speaker cables. I was pleasantly surprised at what I heard. I listened to a total of 10 albums between SACD and vinyl. Then I would replace another cable in my system and again listen to the same 10 albums. By the time I replaced all cables and listened to the same 10 album each time my system was truly "singing" to me. For years I have been skeptical. Now I am not. They do sound different and in my case they sound significantly better than what I was using. Total cost was in the neighborhood of $4,300. Not a lot different, if at all, than adding a new device to the system to enhance the sound. I am happy I did this little experiment.

edit: Don’t shy away from buying "open box" cables as they will be much less expensive. I did that with the Shunyata speaker cables and saved $700.

On this forum they do. On scientific forums they don't.

     Science loves me

         This I know

     'Cause my textbooks 

          Tell me so

        But my mind

    To my ears belongs

        They are right

  The books are wrong

   Yes: Science loves me

   Yes: Science loves me

             etc...

Confirmation bias is often cited by cable deniers, yet it's rarely acknowledged in the same post or thread that this interpretation goes both ways in terms of confirming one's previous beliefs - more like "rejection bias" for the cable deniers. 

Like almost everyone on this thread, my answer would be, very much, YES. But, as usual that answer means absolutely nothing unless you hear the difference yourself, and like what you hear.

It seems to me that the key issue for anyone in your situation (and mine) is to have a nice hi fi dealer who will lend you stuff so that you can make comparisons.

Confirmation bias is real and very common here.  Not saying cables don't matter but when two cables are close, 2 component are close, a new component is added that doesn't make much difference, tubes are swapped, it is easy to get confirmation bias.  

I am certain many of the positive reviews here on the forum absolutely reek with confirmation bias. 

So do your tests for several hours each.  Keep an open mind.  go back and forth a couple of times.  Do everything you can to keep from being a victim of confirmation bias.

Sometimes I just do the upgrade and don't try to judge it, other than to confirm I did no harm.  

Jerry

Yes they do, regardless of what others may say. They really do.

"  Do not be fooled by the diameter of the external plastic sheath: what matters is the metal content of the core. The more the better, without exception….”

How much metal content of the core shoud be in good speaker cables ?

A couple of comments on "confirmation bias":

The exact opposite effect can happen as well -- rigid skepticism. When a new/different concept is introduced, there’s the prospect that it may peg the needle on our "BS meters". Everything we’ve been taught, our life experiences AND our common sense tells us that it can’t be true. Then, the unthinkable happens. We actually give it a listen and <insert EXPLETIVE(S) here!!!!>.

This is exactly how I was dragged kicking and screaming into what are modern staples in quality audio reproduction. As an avid skeptic. As a dealer in the mid 70’s I made a "courtesy purchase" of some meaty speaker cables. The "courtesy purchase" occurs when you like the rep (or find them to be somewhat credible, or both), or his company, and just what to make them happy (or, shut them the heck up). These massive cables hung on the pegboard for months, sealed in their factory packaging. During each monthly visit, I would be asked if had listened to them yet. The answer was consistent: "I haven’t gotten around to it yet". I’m not sure of what the actual motiviation was, but I finally broke them out and took them home. We’ll just say my life has never been the same since I discovered that certain cables shouldn’t be used on a quality 2-slice toaster -- much less a piece of serious audio gear.

Fast forward 20 years, and a concept that is often rebuked here was introduced. Same mindset. Same hesitation. But, I was finally shamed into listening. Yep. Eye and ear opening. That’s when the terms "intellectual" and "humility" became permanently engrained of my vocabulary.

Here’s MHO on cables in general:

I’ve experienced situations where a smaller gauge, well-engineered cable kicked the crap out of a big gauge cable in 95% of the audible range. There’s more to this cable thing than mere gauge or the purity of copper.

I’ve never experienced a system at any price that could not benefit from the (right) cable being attached. This includes $300 shelf systems.

Cables upgrades can make as much of a difference INSIDE of a enclosure or chassis as they do on the outside. Be adventurous. Pop the top off the chassis, or pull a woofer and look inside. You might be surprised at the upgrade opportunities that await you.

And so does garlic for warding off vampires. 

I especially enjoyed the "proof" that people who make their living selling extremely expensive audio equipment wouldn't market extremely expensive audio equipment unless it worked.

The Cables forum is intended for those who believe cables make a difference in how their systems sound. True Believers only! It's not a forum, it's a temple.

@ebm 

two exclamation points?  This loquaciousness is getting out if hand.

Yes, wires do make a difference.

You can ignore anyone who gives an explanation that better cables do not work. Basic physics equations don’t properly explain sound dynamics. The basic equations don’t account for anything.

Also, watch out for any comparisons using Monster Cables. Those cables aren't really any good, and people using those to state that there is no improvement need to look at some other brands. I would agree, Monsters aren’t any better than cheap ones, but that has not been the case with other brands.  Actually, I've found that Monoprice interconnects do sound better than the Monsters I have owned.

You mentioned that you were going to try Anticables. I’ve had really good experiences with them. I replaced much more expensive cables with Anticalbes when I moved into my current house. Because of the way the house is set up, I needed to use 45 ft speaker calbes and run the cables through underground conduit (not an ideal setup in any way). But frankly, they sound better than the 8ft cables that they replaced. My wife (who has fantastic hearing, but doesn’t care about equipment--the perfect judge) noticed the improvement right away.

Don’t be put off by the thickness of the cable. The important part of the thickness is the copper core. Actually, cables work better when the core is thick and the sheath is thin. Marketing and cost are better when the opposite is true.

When I was buying these, I had a good conversation with the owner. Frankly, his design explanations made a lot of sense.

I would try them. They have a 30 day return policy if I remember correctly. Return them if they don’t work for you.

Having recently replaced my Blue Jeans speaker cables with Mogami, I can weigh in on this discussion. Two totally different sounds, for sure. After playing the Mogami's for a couple months I was not so sure they were what I was looking for and switched back to the BJC's, big change and I prefer the sound. I will switch back to the Mogami's once more to get a fresh impression, but likely looking at trying something else in the "lower" cost range.

Have just upgraded from Morrow Audio SP6 to SP7.  And once again, the better the cable, the better the sound of my system.  Specifically, better resolution and imaging, and perhaps a tad more bass now that they are breaking in somewhat...it's obvious to me that one can get very carried away w/the amount of money invested in I/Cs and SCs; the prices of some exceed the total $ that I've put into my entire system...but the caliber of your components should determine where this "law of diminishing returns" kicks in..I'm not there.

JB52, get help, man!

I just upgraded my speaker and interconnect cables to the Neotech Sahara rectangular OCC from harmonic Tech round OCC what a difference as good as around OCC is the rectangular OCC is even better, not cheap but well worth it.

if you can hear the difference, they do

OK assuing all the wires attached to the components are top shelf(and likely costly)and the synergy is perfect. What happens to the sound(signals) when the signals  meet the cheap zip cord like internal speaker wires?  It can't be good can it, How can it be good?

What happens to the sound(signals) when the signals  meet the cheap zip cord like internal speaker wires?

1 - the internal wiring of speakers is not as important, because (a) they are very, very short runs, way shorter than the speaker cables, and (b) they are inside the cabinets (not subjected to other environmental factors associates with the speaker wire going from the amp to the speakers).

2 - Good speakers use good internal wire, and not crap / zip cords.

Hopefully I did not waste my time writing this, as I smell a snarky question, like you folks always do. Oh well...

Once you try Fidelium in your rig you'll have your answer. 

  I see the “ lamp cord comment “ by the same contributor.  So do you still run the thin red, white and yellow interconnects? According to you , it’s just wire. Why do you roll tubes ? They’re just metal and glass.  Some poor village is deprived of an idiot …. Go home. 

Type of speaker cable and models within a brand have sonic differences. And it really matters.  

Absolutely they can but only worth it perhaps once you get pretty much all the rest right first.

I thought this subject was a “dead horse “ too but, oh well.

My Acoustic Research AR 3a’s were in ‘74 ordered with AR speaker cables and they turned out to be lamp cord, 50’ each I recall.

Upgraded to KHorns in ‘81 and kept the cords, believing, like Paul Klipsch, that finely made, expensive speaker cables were bull****.

My brother gave me some unwanted, not-so-high-end Monster cables and I was quite honestly floored by how incredibly better the sound quality became…...placing me firmly in the believer camp.

For me speaker cables made a difference. And if you’re curious I encourage you to experiment. Then you can be the judge. 

Yes, in my case cables used anywhere in the system have an effect on sound. Including speaker wirings and even the electronic PCB cards tracks have an effect. I had an old tube preamplifier I disconnected all the PCB tracks and replaced them with point to point wirings. The sound improved a lot.

If you want to test try these tow cheap cables below recommended by Whathifi. Try them separately first and then both connected in parallel (Make sure the cables get enough burn in time first). The Clearwater is good with treble while the Rocket is good with bass. I use them connected in parallel.

Van den Hul The Clearwater and AudioQuest Rocket 11

Even the wires in the crossover coils have an effect. I replaced the LF filter coils with Jantzen Audio WaxCoil 12awg and the sound got better. I will replace the rest soon, I had already replaced the capacitors some time ago.

Post script: 

I got some anticables many years ago and they sound fine.

As previously remarked: at some point accept happiness in how your system performs.

Unless you have access to exotic conductors, the 'amount of metal' (i.e. gauge) of the cable/wire is the best measure. That having been said, if decent gauge lamp cord isn't good enough for you, paralleling 2 or 3 strands ought to do the trick. Thank you Dr. Ohm. If you are concerned with increasing capacitance(?), a cable containing the same amount of metal as the 3 lamp cords would have the same capacitance issue. Electric current is remarkably disinterested in other details except for loops in the wiring and oxidized connectors.

The confirmation bias story I like best:

A man was walking in Manhattan with a bag of salt slung over one shoulder.  Every few yards he took a pinch and threw it over his left shoulder.  Someone came up to him and asked him why he was doing it.

'Keeps the elephants away.'

'But there aren't any elephants for miles around here.'

'Effective, isn't it.'

That has to be the most dumbass analogy that I have heard on confirmation bias. You folks don’t realize such known and true cognitive disorder works both ways. By definition, confirmation bias is the tendency we as humans have in seeking information and facts that confirm existing beliefs, rather than questioning them or seeking new ones.

Yes, people who believe speaker cables make a difference are not immune from confirmation bias. Let’s be real, all humans do. But, whatever they believe, is based on actual experience, and ownership of said cable. By definition, experience and experimentation ARE in a way objective facts. The “elephant” they actually “saw”. You on the other hand, base your opinion generally on stuff you read on the internet. The “elephant “ you never saw. So, who is the most “sick” from the cognitive dissonance ?

Another observation I have from “following” naysayers on audio forums: you spend so much time, energy, and effort in an attempt to “prove” what does NOT work. Debunk and disprove stuff. And almost none on what actually works. Why? Perhaps that way, by sharing YOUR experience on what works and how and why it works, you could become more useful to the Audio community? Actually contributing something 

@thyname Good illustration.  Thanks for sharing.

Thanks for all the responses. I am thinking about trying Anti Cables speaker wire. It's very thin wire and unless they made the reviews up themselves, they are highly thought of by different users. Any thoughts on Anti Cables ?     

I have a modest second system with the Anticable 2.1.  It is a Powernode with Elac Debut Reference speakers.  I had older cables on hand from Straightwire and XLO.  I preferred the XLO, but they were way too long.  So I took a flyer on the Anitcables since I could get a five-foot pair for only $100 and run them straight from the Powernode to the speakers without them touching the floor.  They sound great with this little system.  That said, if you have a longer run you need to consider the fact that they are very stiff.  You can bend them, but they are very different from the typical flexible cable.

For me: 99.9% Pure single strand OCC Copper in a PTFE sleeve with a textile jacket. Nothing less and nothing more and it doesn't cost $1K per foot......Jim

They (and other cables) make a huge difference. Forget the "science"; what matters is, can you hear it or not. If you can, it's important. If you can't, it's not important.

It's been my experience in some 15+ years of hardcore effort electronics development that I can in fact hear nearly everything. Could probably count on 1 hand the areas where could not.

That said, I can heartily recommend Audience. Their Morre treatment really does change the conduction (can hear it) and simply put, nothing else gets out of the way of the music like Audience. Certainly not at the price point at least, likely safe to say. Audience have been kind enough to Morre treat several parts for me (inductors, caps) and lots of excellent chassis wire, which I use exclusively lately to outstanding effect.

My pals and I had been using AU24sx generally already. Hard to beat that for bang for the buck IMO. Then I was impressed enough with Audience Front Row (and Morre treated XO-M caps) that I asked for dealership status and was kindly granted.

I completely concur and agree 100% with this review: https://www.soundstageultra.com/index.php/equipment-menu/963

If it interests you, feel free to reach out. TK tekaudiospecialties1@gmail.com www.tekaudiospecialties.com

I second the solid core wire. Even better is magnet wire. Insulation is the key. Stored energy in the insulation (dielectric constant) is the issue. 

From Electromec

"UNWANTED ENERGY STORAGE IN CABLES – DIELECTRIC CONSTANT"

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• A wire’s dielectric constant is related to the energy stored in the insulation.
• Lower insulation dielectric constants are preferred for high-speed data applications
• This parameter must be tightly controlled for impedance-controlled systems.

@thyname I love Venn diagrams, I just love them.  No really I do. 

@zlone If you wanna stop messing around with entry-level cables, buy these Acoustic Zen Satori cables at a great price and go to the next level.  If they don’t work out just turn around and sell them at little/no loss as there’s a fluid market for AZ cables.  Just do it.  You won’t be disappointed. 
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649912537-acoustic-zen-satori-shotgun-speaker-cable-8ft-spades-at-both-ends/

Buy any good quality and you are done. One song with different download source can hear a different sound why they can’t show one cable sound louder than other :).

As with all things: yes, within reason.
In my humble opinion, only two criteria to watch for:

- diameter of the copper wire: wider = less resistance

- length of cable: shorter = less resistance.
That’s it. You don’t have to spend a lotta money for that muffler, err … cable.

My experience has led me to consider cabling selection equal to component and speaker selection. Specifically how they all perform - and sound - in unison. This initially was a little frustrating because I didn’t budget for it, but that faded as I realized it was one more way to further improve the quality of the experience.

It was easy to recognize the differences in speakers. Then came components. Last and most challenging for me to wrap my head around was how changing a cable could be such a significant variable in the equation. To be fair, some cables less or more obvious than others. So I definitely can relate to the doubters.

It is a journey. A reproduction of experience through electrical and wave propagation. One best experienced through observation without persecution. From truth - seeing things as they are - flows compassion. And when you hear it, the experience is undeniable.