Stereo or monoblocks

Late to this post, but I'm running a pair of mono Schiit Aegir's to power my LS50 Metas and I love the sound. 

Using a Parasound P7 preamp for both it's multi channel capability and it's balanced outputs.

I initially had one Aegir, but it just wasn't enough to power the Metas so I bought another and I'm glad I did.

I also have a pair of small REL subs to give some more heft to the bottom end, but even without those the sound is very nice.

So you have two integrated amps. You are using one as an integrated and the amp as a monoblocks… you are only using the second as a mono amplifier?

Ok, with nearly 100% certainty that is not optimal use of funds. First integrated amps are a compromise by putting so much circuitry in a small footprint. Then buying duplicate preamps… then bridging… yes, that is not optimal from any point of view.

I would skip the integrated if you have room. Optimal would be something like a $8K preamp (personally I would get a used Audio Research Reference) and a $10K stereo amplifier. That should be a huge upgrade. 

So I'm at a crossroads... I presently have two tube monoblock amps that can act as separate integrated amps (80wpc/8o). I feel like I'm losing some of the value since I'm paying for an integrated amp, but only using one amps features. I do like the sound, but I'm wondering if two 8k integrated amps paired in mono would out shine a 18k integrated amp built specifically that way from the ground up?

So if price being equal, but one is a integrated that can act as a mono amp, would it outshine a dedicated equally priced (in principal more expensive) stereo amp?

Thoughts?

Those are nice speakers and Power amp. 400 a side will do fine The mac is a great brand.

Compression driver means efficiency and Jbl dual woofer want current

he mac should provide well.

Crazy enough Crown Comtech units are cheap and would provide very cost effective power  in mono blocks.

Thanks for all the advice guys.

I recently went to a pair of Mc611's with a c49 after trying many different stereo combinations. I wish I would have tried mac a long time ago. Speakers are Kef Blades.

Especially if you have speakers of less than 8 Ohms, speaker cables can be critical- monoblocks allow the speaker cables to be shorter, thus reducing the artifact they might impose. If the monoblocks have balanced inputs, this can allow the interconnect cables to have no 'sound' of their own as well.

The power supplies of the amps are obviously not shared so the power for the amp will be cleaner. This can allow the amplifier lower IMD which is audible. Because there can be less current limitation to the power supply bass impact can be improved.

Two amplifiers that I own (both excellent) are dual mono

EVS 1200 (TweakAudio)

Voyager GaN 350 LSA

Im pretty sure there are others

Most important is the sound of the amplifier once integrated into your system. Pick the one that sounds better. Second, I prefer mono blocks because I believe they have the potential to sound better but more important you can use shorter speaker cables that can be expensive, so the savings there can be put toward the greater cost of the mono blocks.

You can probably get a better stereo amp than monoblocks at the same price. If you compare monoblocks amps to a stereo  amp of the same design and watts per channel then monoblocks will have the better performance, but at a higher price tag.

I have monoblocks though it’s due to sound performance per dollar. There are excellent stereo amps and crappy monoblocks. 
 

If you can audition - I recommend it. 

@thbullard3 while I personally run monos on my main system as my primary amps, the next level stereo version amp id want would be too heavy. I also rotate in a secondary stereo amp with lower power and less weight yet it’s a true full Class A amp. So, "it depends". In your case you’ve outlined two scenarios. A few more questions...

While the Tyr amps are nice, and IF I owned a c-2300 preamp, I’d see some value in owning the matching 402 stereo amp understanding the designers voice and match some components to work together nicely. It’s more of a crapshoot with the Tyr more so than the 2300/402 combo. What’s interesting is that MC 402 is 110lbs. Each of the Schiit Tyr amps are 55lbs each, exactly half the weight. Yes, a consideration. My former stereo amp was just under 100lb, not as easy to move. So think about it - how often do you plan to move the amp(s) once in place.

Looking closer at your speakers, seems like either amp(s) would be fine for your JBLs. I wonder if the MC 402 is going to sound a little darker than the Tyr monos.

Do you prefer a darker/richer sound like most MC is known for, or do you prefer a little more detail and transparency you might get out of the Tyr amps?

10yrs down the road, or if you resale again later, its a toss up which will bring better return. How long are you planning to keep the amps, a few years, ten years+, or ?

Monoblocks for the win. 
 

plus, it,makes a statement. You like nice things.

\,,/

I forgot to mention what got me to this point. 
I’ve been using a Mac ma6600 integrated for the last 5. I’m completely happy with it. I’ve never had anything as good before. Never owned anything than old receivers before. However I’m going to separates now snd the C2300 checked all my boxes. Just looking for my power section now, trying to stay under $4500 budget. Thanks 

Very interesting the Tyr is not listed as Class AB it lists as "continuity" I believe Long Dog Audio P6100 monoblocks are also heavily biased into Class A before switching back to Class AB. The LDA monoblocks are also in your price range based on the Sterling to Dollar currency convertor at Coinmill, good luck! Cheers

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the input. I still haven’t decided yet, Im taking my time. I doubt I’d ever get to listen to them before purchasing. I like the mc402 because it’d match the c-2300. I could get one used around $4500. However it is big and heavy. Im very interested in the Schiit Tyr because of the great reviews I’ve seen so far. It’s also two smaller/lighter units which is easier to place in rack, plus I’m curious about the mono sound (imaging etc.). They’re also a little cheaper and brand new. I wish I could test them side by side. Once again think you all for your opinions……..keep ‘em coming.

I simply don't have room for a stereo amp in my main system, so monoblocks are a must.  They sit behind my speakers, and yes, I've been able to use very short speaker cables.  Of course, your interconnects between the preamp and amp will be longer, but if everything is fully balanced, that probably won't matter.  

Typically, a stereo amp is going to cost less than the equivalent monoblocks and will take up less space.

For me, the decision had more to do with my available space than any sound quality or performance issues. 

I don't know for certain, but if someone would send me a pair of ARC 750 monos, I will be pleased to compare them to my current stereo amp.  Message me for my address...

Cheers!

@unreceivedogma 

Yes… locating monoblocks within a foot or two (and shortening the cable) is supposed to make a big difference. A friend / dealer has done this repeatedly to good effect. Unfortunately, I have not… the interconnect / speaker cable cost is way too high for me to do as an experiment.

@unreceivedogma Good point. I have mine underneath (ESL57) or beside (Spendor) my speakers with 24" or 30" of speaker wire.

Has anyone mentioned the little bit about monoblocs allowing you to get the amps (much) closer to the speakers? For some, a not unimportant consideration. 

I get enjoyment out of either of my main system amps-custom 125W tube monoblocks Class A/B 6 or 8db of global feedback and 70W tube EAR 890 stereo amp Class A zero global feedback.  My best friend has an RM9 stereo Class A/B amp which sounds great as well.  I wouldn't choose one type over another on the basis of mono or stereo construction as there is so much more involved just as I wouldn't choose a DAC based on it's DtoA converter chip.  

Stereo or Mono, it does not matter other than it is easier to physically move the mono amps And the mono amps can be placed nearer the speakers. I am the owner of Quicksilver, PrimaLuna(stereo/mono) and Bedini(stereo) amps. Some amps are only available in mono or stereo. Just listen to the amps. Then choose!

It really depends on the designer/builder and your budget. For example the better stereo amps are "split down the middle" designs- isolated R &L channel amps on one chassis and often with separate transformers. Cheaper stereo amps share power supplies, caps, etc. 

I have a buddy with no budget at all and he has  4 monoblocks. I can't really hear the difference at all. He can't either. He just likes the cool factor. 

ARC's Reference line of stereo amps is so good you'd be hard pressed to hear the difference between them and their monoblocks. 

Put another way there is a law of diminishing returns.  80% more money for 20% more improvement - but over what baseline? If your quality baseline is already a 9 out of 10 $50,000+ more for monoblocks is just tinkering and geeking out- not really a transformative action.  

FWIW I wouldn't use a non-Mac upgrade if you're into the Mac sound. You could change the personality of the system and not for the better. Demo at home before you buy ALWAYS.

@ rbrantlysteele

One per speaker. A mono block is the same as stereo only each amp is on a single chassis. One for right and one for left. Many moons ago before stereo you only needed one amp and one speaker. When stereo came out you needed two speakers and two amps. Hence the stereo amp. I don’t know when the mono amp was coined mono block?

I read posts by others to try to gather information and get educated on a variety of subjects. I own two mono blocks, but I don’t know how to use them. They are Bob Latino brand, and I would like to use them, but I don’t know how. I have  JBL speakers and they all have internal crossover’s.

Back in the 1990s I was using a Naim based system 72/Hicap/250, and decided to try a pair of Naim’s 135 monoblocks (based on the 250). The differences were noticeable immediately. The Naim house sound remained but all sonic aspects improved. Most notably, separation. The 135s also had better control of the bass, improved sound staging: depth, width, layering of instruments. In other words, everything that I liked about the 250 and more.

@ghdprentice

your post got me thinking...

people will post asking ’hey, what about this one factor in hifi?’ (e.g. stereo vs mono amps... r2r vs d-s digital conversion... single ended vs balanced... metal vs soft dome tweeters... 6dj8 vs 6h30p... fine line vs elliptical styli... belt drive vs dd )

people then chime in, we have lengthy discussions... but this is talking ad nauseum about one particular variable... in a pursuit where multiple multiple variables are constantly at work, to produce the end result of the music playing

so all else equal, sure, we say this or that... but the key to remember is... all else is never equal... and the better question to ask is just how important is this particular factor among all relevant factors in the whole result being achieved?

perhaps a useful framework here may be something like maslov’s hierarchy, but applied to hifi..."mono vs stereo amps" to me have got to be several levels down below ground, deep in the ol’ basement...

Unfortunately, all things being equal will not include price. I am listening to a pair of ARC REF160m monoblocks… they sound slightly better… nuances only, than my ARC REF 160s… but the difference in cost is $12K. So, yeah, the monoblocks are better… it comes down to is it worth $12K’s worth?

I have a C2300 that I'm running with MC601 mono blocks. I had an MC352 before, and the difference is there but it's not day and night. Like someone else said - it's very subtle. The reason I upgraded other than that subtle difference, is the design and look of the 601's. Personally, I really don't care for the cosmetic design of the MC402. In any case- you can't go wrong with a C2300. It's my favorite.

All things being equal, Mono Blocks are the way to go.  No question.  

@ditusa

Congrats, that sounds like an ideal setup, I love JBL’s 😍

and own the Studio 2 series in the mancave home theater.

Going the active route like you did is OTT. 

@kota1 Wrote:

It is interesting to see the enthusiasm with monoblocks and if you like monoblocks you will love active speakers which typically have hand picked monoblocks... for each driver. 

I love monoblocks and active speakers.  The speakers below have an active crossover with no power amps built in and are excellent speakers. Also, my home audio speakers are actively bi-amped with 4 mono block amps, no built in power amps and sound great. A speaker, with built in power amp(s), is called a powered speaker, active or passive is in reference to a speakers crossover topology. In my opinion, amps inside speakers is not a good idea because the amps are subject to all the vibrations and air pressure inside the speaker cabinet. FWIW, my speakers are JBL 4435's. 😎

Mike

It is interesting to see the enthusiasm with monoblocks and if you like monoblocks you will love active speakers which typically have hand picked monoblocks... for each driver. My active speakers have a 150 watt monoblock for the woofer and a 50 watt monoblock for the tweeter that were handpicked by the speaker designer, saves $$$ on speaker cables too.. 

Just buy the best amp(s) you can afford with an appropriate amount of power for your needs. Mono doesn't automatically mean magic, it means separate left and right chassis and the imaging will be better, everything else being equal. 

The MC402 runs around $4500-4900. Just get the best amp you can find in that price range. @normantaylor liked the Magtech amps better not just because they are monos, but because they are better amps and they really lit up his Maggies. 

If you can, mono blocks are the way.  Which ones is a different story.  If you like the Mac sound, you can double down and get Mac’s. If you want dilute the Max sound, there are many amps that sound good with your preamp.  Last year I was at a friends house and he had a Mac preamp and PS Audio BHK 300 mono blocks playing through KEF Blade speakers.  I didn’t want to leave!

I would love to have a set of mono blocks if I had the room and the means to purchase.  I have an all PS Audio system with a BHK250 driving a set of Focal Sopra's so I would love to plop a set of BHK600's or maybe the 300's down near them but the price of admission is way out of my league for now, so I will just have to be happy with the 250 for some time to come.

I am a mono block fan... I have my reasons but I love the visual of the two units and mental framework of two channels being separately amplified.

As for the 402... Looks impressive, maybe over powered... Not that you could have to much power, but certainly the 3800 could do with less.

I am completely amazed with my Schiit Aegir mono-blocks. I'm powering KefLS50 Meta's and have been just enamored with them and the sound.

The 3800 at 92db and 4ohm, LS50's I run are 85db and 8ohm and believe it or not the Aegir do a great job powering them in mono (I was nervous and considering the Vidar mono's). With the Aegir's I'm filling my entire 1500sq/ft workshop/garage with tons of rich and highly detailed sound (+subwoofer).

Give them a try... You could be very impressed and save a few bucks.

@chocaholic I know the increased wpc had everything to do with why my music sounds better on my system.  The mono blocks in my case provided greater wpc.  To your point, I have seen mono blocks that have quite low wpc, but I think that is the exception.  

I started out with the Mc462 and then went with the C2700 pre and 611 mono blocks. Will never go back. Yes it is expensive but when the boss says it is ok, you do what the boss says...!

+1 for the MC 402, been using for 20 years with LS360.

@normantaylor Since you went from 450wpc to 2000wpc, isn’t it possible that’s the reason for the improvement you described? It may have nothing to do with mono vs stereo.

Agree with the earlier sentiments. Assuming you have found a stereo amp you already like, if you upgrade the set-up to mono w/the same type amps...prepare yourself for even more music.

A little late on this chain, but I recently changed from a stereo amp to mono blocks. I have power hungry Magnepan 20.7's.  I had a McIntosh 462 stereo amp that supplied 450 wpc.  It worked well.  However, I decided to go mono blocks more out of curisoity than anything.  I bought Sander's Sound Systems amplifiers.  Magtech Monoblock amps.  They supply 2000 wpc!   I was blown away by the difference in clarity of sound.  It made my Maggies blossom.  I even contemplated selling my REL subwoofers because the bass was coming out of the Maggies like I had never heard before.  In short the amplification of the mono blocks was remarkable.  I am a believer in mono blocks.  I heard instruments and sounds from CD's and LP's I had listened to for years that I had never heard before.  It was truly amazing.  I am a big fan of Sanders Sound Systems amplifiers.  Roger Sanders has been in the biz since 1974.  As an engineer he is meticulous in his work, has written many white papers on audio issues and has top service.  Best of luck in your adventure.

by implementing mono blocks w < 30” cables…..

 look a great stereo amp builder is already doing dual mono in same chassis… except IF ya implement it correctly speaker wire L goes down massively…. That’s the KEY….

don’t worry about stereo amp or mono blocks, that decision in and of itself is a red herring 98+% of the time

focus on getting a good stereo amp that will drive your speakers well and sound the way you will like

@noromance Wrote:

Monoblocs are the icing on the cake when it comes to stereo imaging, micro-detailing, increased soundstage, and lowered noise floor. Once you mono, can’t go back.

I agree 2000%!

Mike

Monoblocs are the icing on the cake when it comes to stereo imaging, micro-detailing, increased soundstage, and lowered noise floor. Once you mono, can't go back.

1000% this!

I find Mc to have distinct sound.  If you like it you like it, but for me I would do something more neutral and cost appropriate.  Parasound Halo may be a better tonal balance.